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Deville's Experiment | Brubeck & Metheny

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  • Deville's Experiment | Brubeck & Metheny

    I have been tinkering with this video for the past several days. I had planned to go a different direction with it, but, while putting it together, I discovered something very interesting...well, interesting to me, anyway.

    This posting might be kind of boring. After all, it's kind of a "repeat" video from a year ago. And it's long. Very long. But, being the weird person that I am, I felt compelled to do a re-mix of it and post it.

    I really liked the jazz punch drumming video that ebozyn posted a while back and got his permission to use the video in my own. I originally wanted to try to do a "split screen" thing, but discovered the shortcomings of my iMovie program. The best I could do was splice some of ebo's video in with mine.

    But, in the process, I discovered that the two songs that we had each punched to have the same tempo! How often does this happen?! I suppose this isn't all that uncommon, but, I found that my punching tempo in the video seemed to be nearly dead on throughout, no matter which song was playing. (I synced up the songs, and then synced the video to them. Is this making sense?)

    You see, when I record my punch drumming videos, all that is heard on the original video is the punching – no music. I listen to the music with headphones as I punch. Then, in "post-production" I have to bring the music in to the video editting program and painstakingly sync the first beat of the music with the first punch of the bag. It's tedious, but the end result satisfies my pickiness. So often, the sound of the speed bag will drown out the music, when videotaping. You have to place the music speakers in perfect alignment with the camera mic, to make it work.

    So, anyway, here is my "experiment." That is, if you're still reading this thread...


    sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
    I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

  • #2
    When i first watched this video, after about 7 minutes i was thinking, "am i in this?" haha

    Pretty Cool MsD. I like your Baggin'. You're throwing your elbows nicely.


    You know what.. have you ever tried standing on a pallet, or something that will lift you closer to the board. I think everything will become alot easier for you if you do that. At first it feels a little odd, and you'll have to watch out so you don't punch the board, because a person gets too used to REeeeACHING for the bag. but then, after a few days everything flows alot smoother, and you can do things you couldn't do before. I had a hell of a time bagging before i raised myself up to about an inch or two from the board.

    with pat metheny though, you get some interesting music. It's kinda out there though.

    Ms D. You seem to like some stylin' music. maybe you have heard of these guys, and these tunes. In case you haven't, you may dig at least one of these songs.





    Comment


    • #3
      i agree with ebozyn about reaching for the bag, i lowered my platform cause my shoulders were hurting from hitting. also i might add that i see people tilting there heads back when they hit, it's my opinion that if you keep your head more level you become less tense when you hit and can relax more...ralph

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you are dabbling in xenochrony. Keep it up and we'll call you a xenochronist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
          I have been tinkering with this video for the past several days. I had planned to go a different direction with it, but, while putting it together, I discovered something very interesting...well, interesting to me, anyway.

          This posting might be kind of boring. After all, it's kind of a "repeat" video from a year ago. And it's long. Very long. But, being the weird person that I am, I felt compelled to do a re-mix of it and post it.

          I really liked the jazz punch drumming video that ebozyn posted a while back and got his permission to use the video in my own. I originally wanted to try to do a "split screen" thing, but discovered the shortcomings of my iMovie program. The best I could do was splice some of ebo's video in with mine.

          But, in the process, I discovered that the two songs that we had each punched to have the same tempo! How often does this happen?! I suppose this isn't all that uncommon, but, I found that my punching tempo in the video seemed to be nearly dead on throughout, no matter which song was playing. (I synced up the songs, and then synced the video to them. Is this making sense?)

          You see, when I record my punch drumming videos, all that is heard on the original video is the punching – no music. I listen to the music with headphones as I punch. Then, in "post-production" I have to bring the music in to the video editting program and painstakingly sync the first beat of the music with the first punch of the bag. It's tedious, but the end result satisfies my pickiness. So often, the sound of the speed bag will drown out the music, when videotaping. You have to place the music speakers in perfect alignment with the camera mic, to make it work.

          So, anyway, here is my "experiment." That is, if you're still reading this thread...


          This is pretty cool Dee! I not only appreciate your incredible punch drumming talent but your commitment to quality video is to be commended! Your speed bag set up creates a sound that is very pleasing to the ear.

          I enjoyed the vid and the mix of music! Great Job!

          Keep the vids coming
          Novaspeedbagger

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ebozyn View Post

            Ms D. You seem to like some stylin' music. maybe you have heard of these guys, and these tunes. In case you haven't, you may dig at least one of these songs.





            I gotta tell you ebozn, I haven't seen anyone else linking to music featuring Paco Peña. My original (first) Neurosurgeon was from Argentina and we had love of Flamenco music in common. He said he played flamenco most of his "younger years" but gave it up when he chose to specialize in Neurosurgery.. (.. to maintain the sensitivity in his fingertips, which fretting seems to obliterate) and he gave me some of his CD's by Paco Peña, and that was in the early 1990's.
            I learned to love it years before during a collegiate summer in Spain. Amazing guitarists playing flamenco style were everywhere.

            the link to the duo with Andy Mckee was also unique. He's an amazing talent that few seem to know about.

            Gotta say I love your musical taste.

            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            Dee your punch drumming skills continual to improve! Love the way you work that double beat sound with double elbows. I'm not sure I hear the beat similarities of these two tunes, for the Pat Metheny song is in a slow 4/4 time and the Brubeck song faster is a bit faster 5/4 time. The 4/4 is pretty easy to bag to, the 5/4 not so much but it is a fun experiment. Haven't thought of that one yet, but your pulling it off very well. Your right about hitting to "live music" and having to find a happy medium of the bag rebounding sounds against the music. Usually one or the other is a bit too loud.
            Last edited by Speedbag; 11-25-2011, 06:24 PM.
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Hoping for another Gathering...


            sigpic

            The Art of the Bag

            Comment


            • #7
              Best Laid Plans...

              Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
              When i first watched this video, after about 7 minutes i was thinking, "am i in this?" haha
              Wahh, I so wanted to do a split screen (sort of a duet-style video). You would be punching to the Brubeck tune while I was punching to Metheny. Just a fun thought... I guess I need to ask Santa for some better video editing equipment. (My little video program is so limited.)

              But, you were the inspiration for my whacky idea of trying to merge two different tunes together.

              Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
              Pretty Cool MsD. I like your Baggin'. You're throwing your elbows nicely.
              This video (punching to Metheny) was recorded just a few weeks after attending the first SpeedBAG event – SB 2010. Man, was I pumped after that weekend. I know I go on and on about this (maybe I need a life! ), but those 3 days at Real Gymm were simply amazing. I know we're just a bunch of random people on this forum, who share a common interest. But, I swear, every person at that event was worth meeting and hanging with that weekend. I think there's a connection between speed bagging and good people...can't have one without the other...

              But, I digress. The point is that I really seemed to bump up my speed bagging abilities after attending SB 2010. It was great inspiration and I learned so much by watching Alan, Skunk, Brian, TommyT, Tim, and the list goes on...


              Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
              You know what.. have you ever tried standing on a pallet, or something that will lift you closer to the board. I think everything will become alot easier for you if you do that. At first it feels a little odd, and you'll have to watch out so you don't punch the board, because a person gets too used to REeeeACHING for the bag. but then, after a few days everything flows alot smoother, and you can do things you couldn't do before. I had a hell of a time bagging before i raised myself up to about an inch or two from the board.
              This was an older video – and I was using a smaller bag than I was used to hitting on. I would stand farther back while hitting on the bigger bags. I think I've been inching closer to the bag lately, especially with the Fighting Sports bag... and I am constantly readjusting my height to the bag, by using planks of wood.


              Originally posted by ebozyn View Post
              ...Ms D. You seem to like some stylin' music. maybe you have heard of these guys, and these tunes. In case you haven't, you may dig at least one of these songs.



              I love this first one – Ross and McKee. Love the beat. And no, I've never heard of any of these musicians... I have downloaded the audio of this one and have been trying to work out a routine with it. Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will pass on the flemenco music. Way too hard for me right now.
              sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
              I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ventanakaz View Post
                i agree with ebozyn about reaching for the bag, i lowered my platform cause my shoulders were hurting from hitting. also i might add that i see people tilting there heads back when they hit, it's my opinion that if you keep your head more level you become less tense when you hit and can relax more...ralph
                Yes, I've been trying to get higher... to the bag, that is. And, I'm trying to keep my elbows up higher. I've been lazy that way...



                Originally posted by paranday View Post
                I think you are dabbling in xenochrony. Keep it up and we'll call you a xenochronist.
                Of course I had to look up this word, Jim. Totally foreign to me. (How the heck did YOU come across this?)

                From Wikipedia:
                "Xenochrony is a studio-based musical technique developed at an unknown date, but possibly as early as the early 1960s, by Frank Zappa, who used it on several albums. Xenochrony is executed by extracting a guitar solo or other musical part from its original context and placing it into a completely different song, in order to create an unexpected but pleasing effect. He said that this was the only way to achieve some rhythms."

                Cool! Well, I guess this is what I tried to do...although, not very well...


                Originally posted by novaspeedbagger View Post
                This is pretty cool Dee! I not only appreciate your incredible punch drumming talent but your commitment to quality video is to be commended! Your speed bag set up creates a sound that is very pleasing to the ear.

                I enjoyed the vid and the mix of music! Great Job!

                Keep the vids coming
                Thanks, Kerry! I have so far to go. But, that's what spurs me on. And, it seems that I am always discovering something new whenever I go out to the woodshed to bag. I like my metal platform... it's definitely unique.

                Feed the addiction. Keep on baggin.'
                MsDeville
                Senior Member

                Last edited by MsDeville; 12-03-2011, 04:29 PM. Reason: typo.
                sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                Comment


                • #9
                  ...the deville experiment...

                  Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                  ...I'm not sure I hear the beat similarities of these two tunes, for the Pat Metheny song is in a slow 4/4 time and the Brubeck song faster is a bit faster 5/4 time. The 4/4 is pretty easy to bag to, the 5/4 not so much but it is a fun experiment. Haven't thought of that one yet, but your pulling it off very well. Your right about hitting to "live music" and having to find a happy medium of the bag rebounding sounds against the music. Usually one or the other is a bit too loud.

                  Thanks for the comments and observations, Alan. I worked on this "re-mix" on my home computer for days, listening and re-syncing and blending the 2 songs. I think, after a while, I thought my punching was Dead on beat to each of the songs! (And, it would have been a more interesting video if I had been able to insert some "special effects" with ebozyn's video clips.)

                  I have also listened to the audio only, and I think that it has a unique sound. I feel there were parts that came together when I had the Brubeck tune dubbed in and the punch drumming gave it a unique accompaniment...

                  I am sooo ignorant of music. Maybe it's time for me to take a class at the college. I'm sure it could help me to become a better punch drummer.

                  The cool thing about punch drumming, is that you don't have to be well-versed in a lot of intricate punches (although, it certainly doesn't hurt!). It's punching in time with the music, but using different combos to make it sound cool. Novaspeedbagger has been a good student of yours. His natural rhythm and quickness to learn are great assets to have when venturing into the arena of punch drumming.

                  Well, as for my "experiment,"
                  it's back to the drawing board,
                  for now.


                  sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                  I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
                    Of course I had to look up this work, Jim. Totally foreign to me. (How the heck did YOU come across this?)
                    My parents named me Xenocrony, but when I was in high school I petitioned the court to change it to something normal.

                    I honestly think your idea demonstrates well your creativity, you independently invented something strange and wonderful. Hope you can expand on this technique. I'm thinking the Beatles song Strawberry Fields was put together similarly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=MsDeville;31922]Yes, I've been trying to get higher... to the bag, that is. And, I'm trying to keep my elbows up higher. I've been lazy that way...QUOTE]

                      ...i lowered my platform for the third time a few days back and found to have less stress on my shoulders just cause i don't have to rise my elbows up as high when hitting with them even though i'm not that good with the elbows...ralph (edit) when i lowered the platform it felt like i brought it down alot but when i checked it i only lowered it 1/4 of an inch.
                      ventanakaz
                      Speed Bag Guru
                      Last edited by ventanakaz; 12-04-2011, 01:42 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ventanakaz View Post
                        Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
                        Yes, I've been trying to get higher... to the bag, that is. And, I'm trying to keep my elbows up higher. I've been lazy that way...
                        ...i lowered my platform for the third time a few days back and found to have less stress on my shoulders just cause i don't have to rise my elbows up as high when hitting with them even though i'm not that good with the elbows...ralph (edit) when i lowered the platform it felt like i brought it down alot but when i checked it i only lowered it 1/4 of an inch.
                        You can lower the board all the way down until it is just above your hair, which puts the belly of an 8x5 bag at about the center of chest. At this position you can still raise the elbows a bit to create a pretty straight angle of the forearm from fist to elbow, making linking (passing fists through the bag) to all sides of the bag easier. Outward elbow strikes are fine if you keep the fist at ear level during setup, but if you have the tendency to raise your fists up higher you may hit the board. Inward elbow strikes should not be affected. Downward Elbows are a bit more problematic with the board that low, for the set up forces the downward fist up higher. When I put the board down this low (to reduce shoulder pain), and feel like throwing a downward elbow I just bend my knees a bit, dropping my body and head a bit lower and creating the room overhead for the set up fist.

                        the point is, you can set the board down low enough to almost set on your head and still punch, you just need to be sure Your normal punching movements won't find your head hitting the board during movements.
                        Last edited by Speedbag; 12-07-2011, 01:32 PM.
                        Speed Bag

                        Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                        *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                        The Quest Continues...
                        Hoping for another Gathering...


                        sigpic

                        The Art of the Bag

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What was your nickname? Xeno? Or Crony?

                          Originally posted by paranday View Post
                          My parents named me Xenocrony, but when I was in high school I petitioned the court to change it to something normal.
                          Hey, Xeno, what's up?

                          Originally posted by paranday View Post
                          I honestly think your idea demonstrates well your creativity, you independently invented something strange and wonderful. Hope you can expand on this technique. I'm thinking the Beatles song Strawberry Fields was put together similarly.
                          Thanks, Jim. You can usually count on me to cook up something weird. And, yes, I do hope to expand on this idea down the road. I think a Steely Dan song, "Parker's Band" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erdcEUT1jOw (from Pretzel Logic) did some unique musical layering (multiple drum tracks?) and unique phrasing when they put that song together. I understand it was in honor of Charlie Parker, the famous jazz saxophonist who died at the age of 34.
                          sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                          I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                            You can lower the board all the way down until it is just above your hair, which puts the belly of an 8x5 bag at about the center of chest. At this position you can still raise the elbows a bit to create a pretty straight angle of the forearm from fist to elbow, making linking (passing fists through the bag) to all sides of the bag easier. Outward elbow strikes are fine if you keep the fist at ear level during setup, but if you have the tendency to raise your fists up higher you may hit the board. Inward elbow strikes should not be affected. Downward Elbows are a bit more problematic with the board that low, for the set up forces the downward fist up higher. When I put the board down this low (to reduce shoulder pain), and feel like throwing a downward elbow I just bend my knees a bit, dropping my body and head a bit lower and creating the room overhead for the set up fist.

                            the point is, you can set the board down low enough to almost set on you head and still punch, you just need to be sure Your normal punching movements won't find your head hitting the board during movements.
                            I gotta go get me some more wood planks,I'm still too low...
                            I'll have to experiment to see if I can do my downward elbows without hitting the platform... they're a favorite of mine. Thanks, Alan.
                            sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                            I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              New year

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