Would like to learn how to punch drum

[wattsnot]

When starting from scratch, is it best to use the chain link swivel or use the ball hook for punch drumming. I am trying to learn this. I am use to the chain link for normal amateur stuff. The ball and hook puts me back 100 years!

[Zaza]

When starting from scratch, is it best to use the chain link swivel or use the ball hook for punch drumming. I am trying to learn this. I am use to the chain link for normal amateur stuff. The ball and hook puts me back 100 years!

Ball hook is the way to go! Start slow, listen to the rhythms the different combinations create...and go for it.

http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5680

[swfl]

Zaza is right. Just go with the ball hook style. Ms. Deville has a nice one and so does jumpcannon. I started with a ubolt and looking back wish I would have just toughed it out with the ball hook. The ubolt is fast but has limitations. You will grow tired of the chaiinlink quickly. Enjoy!

[ebozyn]

Any of the [metal ball] hook swivels are killer. Be it the the deville, everlast, or the jumpcannon evil. They're all top notch. I love all of the above swivs.

I would also suggest getting one of these swivels for your collection. (everlast 4440 plastic) They only cost around $7.00 on ebay with free shipping. you can't really go wrong. they work great, they sound great. and if you want to assemble your own swivel, or need parts, the S-hook and Eyelet that come with these swivels are really good.

[MsDeville]

Any of the [metal ball] hook swivels are killer. Be it the the deville, everlast, or the jumpcannon evil. They're all top notch. I love all of the above swivs.

I would also suggest getting one of these swivels for your collection. (everlast 4440 plastic) They only cost around $7.00 on ebay with free shipping. you can't really go wrong. they work great, they sound great. and if you want to assemble your own swivel, or need parts, the S-hook and Eyelet that come with these swivels are really good.

I agree with you ebo. Any of these ball-hooks are great. Okay, so I'm a bit partial to the Deville… If you're on a budget, or if one is just starting out, the plastic Everlast ball-hook is a great beginner swivel. You can always swap out the 1" nylon ball with a metal one. I build and sell just the brass ball/S-hook assembly, although I don't recommend putting it in an all-metal base because of the chance of metal chips coming off when punching.

In any case, congratulations on your decision to take on punch drumming, wattsnot. It's very rewarding, addictive, and therapeutic. Oh yeah. And don't let that video of zaza intimidate you!

[Speedbag]

When starting from scratch, is it best to use the chain link swivel or use the ball hook for punch drumming. I am trying to learn this. I am use to the chain link for normal amateur stuff. The ball and hook puts me back 100 years!

Hi wattsnot

IMO Punch drumming is the most fun you can have with a speed bag because it goes beyond just working out on it. Interacting the bag beat with the music becomes very expressive and I think it lets you be more creative, or at least feel that way when your doing it. You can punch drum at ANY level of speed bag skill, beginner, to advanced. If you can feel the beat of the bag and feel the beat of music, you just need to keep the bag beat in time to the music. At the simplest level, just hit the basic triplet rhythm so your fists hit the bag on every music beat. Easiest way to do that is start tapping your foot to song, then start hitting the speed bag in basic rhythm so you fist hits the bag (punches...loudest bag beat) lands when you foot taps. The two swinging rebound don't matter, for they will fall in place if you time your punches correctly. Adjust your punching speed up or down until you "feel" the bag beat" sync up with the song beat. Viola! you're punch drumming. Of course their are all kinds of variations off this but at it's essence, that's what it means. As your bag skills improve to linking and punching from all around the bag, and you begin to recognize the bag beats and rebound patterns they make, you will learn to change sides and keep most of what you do "on beat" with the song. By the way, it is almost always improvised, meaning you make it up as it happens. It is very hard to pre-rehearse a punch drumming routine because you never know when you'll miss or screw up and then you have to start over, ...and if you memorized a routine it will near impossible to jump back in correctly. This improvision of sound makes it the most creative workout on the planet. NO other exercise activity allows for this much non-stop rhythmic expression.

Actually you can do this on any swivel. Of course many of us prefer the ballhook in one form or another. Some say it's harder to control, some say it's slower than other swivels. With time you will adapt to it, and it will make it easier when you move to using the sides of the bag. Other swivels do pretty well front to back punching, but when you are constantly using side punching techniques the mechanics of non-ballhook swivels can of mess with the bag rebound because the linkages don't line up with the exact force of the punch and the resultant rebound may not be what you expected, either slower or at an odd angle. That does not happen all the time, just occasionally and enough to drive a bagger batty, wondering why they keep "miss hitting", when they did not, it's the swivel. Virtually all combinations from "all around the bag" depend on timing and the bag being in the exact place at the right time, meaning most punches and combinations create known rebound angles and paths that we learn to accept. They work at any speed. when that angle changes, or the bag speed changes, it can cause problems. Maybe a bit technical but the bottom line is IF you plan to develop your skills to move all around the bag (lot of side punches), then make the leap to a ballhook now.

This video below, an elvis medley pretty much focuses on what I call basic rhythm punching, or straight time punching. There is not a lot of syncopation in the music and the driving beat lends itself to pretty basic punching on the beat, meaning most of your Punches (loudest rebounds) will be right on time with the song beat. With basic punching like this you can changes sides of the bag and use multipart techniques like Front Double Punches (FDP) or several of the Triple Elbow Strikes, as well as Fist Rolling front of back. They all work fine when punching in straight time. Just keep you last punch of the multipart techniques landing ON the song beat and you should feel you bag beat in time.

(*tip: when you change sides of the bag in this way you will almost always double punch on the side you are going to, and the second fist will land ON the beat. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb0KO0xtiNc

Hope this helps ya start drumming

[wattsnot]

Well I ordered a ball and hook from MsDeville today. Fast response back and I cant wait to get it and start from scratch going to the new stile swivel. After buying the video “Art of the Bag” and watching it has picked up the interest again. Thanks Zaza. Ya know after looking at the “Join Dates” in this thread I am second oldest member, Alan being number one. All you people are great and I am just starting. Time to give up the beer and start to practice. Alan, I have your book and dvds. I’m going to get started in this.

[Speedbag]

Well I ordered a ball and hook from MsDeville today. Fast response back and I cant wait to get it and start from scratch going to the new stile swivel. After buying the video “Art of the Bag” and watching it has picked up the interest again. Thanks Zaza. Ya know after looking at the “Join Dates” in this thread I am second oldest member, Alan being number one. All you people are great and I am just starting. Time to give up the beer and start to practice. Alan, I have your book and dvds. I’m going to get started in this.

It's never to late to get started. Every day is a good day to get started learning more about the speed bag

[wattsnot]

I received the #13 MsDeville swivel today in only 1 business day from ordering. Installed it after work and the holes lined up perfect with the old Everlast. Hit is some and it is very quiet. I like it and will start all over again going to the punch drumming side of speed bagging. 1 business day from Washington to Michigan… I think I know were that missing 777 is… its in MsDeville’s garage. Thanks for a great swivel and fast shipping.

[MsDeville]

I received the #13 MsDeville swivel today in only 1 business day from ordering. Installed it after work and the holes lined up perfect with the old Everlast. Hit is some and it is very quiet. I like it and will start all over again going to the punch drumming side of speed bagging. 1 business day from Washington to Michigan… I think I know were that missing 777 is… its in MsDeville’s garage. Thanks for a great swivel and fast shipping.

Shhhhh. I don't need the Federal Aviation Administration on my case about this.

Boy, that WAS fast delivery! Dang, I'm good.