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Boxing Skills By Charles Roy Schroeder

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  • Boxing Skills By Charles Roy Schroeder

    Boxing Skills
    By Charles Roy Schroeder











    Copy right 1973

  • #2
    Dr. Schroeder was Alan's mentor back in the 70's. I believe his book served as the basis for AK's Speed Bag Bible. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to comment.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Biff View Post
      Dr. Schroeder was Alan's mentor back in the 70's. I believe his book served as the basis for AK's Speed Bag Bible. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to comment.
      I've been seeking a well preserved retired library quality Boxing Skills Book for awhile, and discovered this incredibly well preserved model to add to my collection.

      Dr Schroeder like Alan was clearly dedicated to his craft. I believe there was no other book in existence since 1970's that covered speed bagging in such detail until Alan arrived on scene.

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      • #4
        Yep... I found a copy back in October...and yes, Roy was Alan's mentor, you can hear all about it in the film (Please save a little something for the film Alan!).

        http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/...7&postcount=68



        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zaza View Post
          Yep... I found a copy back in October...and yes, Roy was Alan's mentor, you can hear all about it in the film (Please save a little something for the film Alan!).

          http://www.speedbagforum.com/forums/...7&postcount=68



          Hmmm. I seem to remember this man....

          not to forget that our bag brother and forum member "Jim Caher" was there with me, side to side with Dr. Schroeder. Actually I think he spent a lot more time with Doc using THIS platform pictured. I never actually hit on this plastic board platform, but I believe Jim had. Occasionally I also communicate with several of the other "schroeders raiders" from that day, Bob and Alan Levine, and mark the passing of one, Alan Meyers.

          My own copy of this book is far less than pristine. Like an idiot I scribbled all over many of the pages, separating actual techniques from combinations, developing the names for elbows etc. I also bought another copy of the book online last year, but the cover text and photo's were badly blurred.

          Everybody hits the speed bag with their own style, their own "aura" if you will. I've never seen anyone hit it quite like Doc. I've seen faster and I've seem more complicated combinations from present bretheren, but none hit with Doc's style. He'd stop the room when he hit and you knew you'd seen a man in command of the bag when he was done. And spar with him at your own peril. He'd pick you apart like childs play.

          (by the way, Doc Hand drew each and every picture in his books).
          Last edited by Speedbag; 02-02-2013, 11:00 PM.
          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
          Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

          THE 10th Year Reunion!

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          The Art of the Bag

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          • #6
            Great heritage indeed.

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            • #7
              find

              looks like it was printed last week--where were you able to find--history has a way of illuminating the present--it is always a good study--dd
              the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limitations

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              • #8
                Originally posted by doss darwin View Post
                looks like it was printed last week--where were you able to find--history has a way of illuminating the present--it is always a good study--dd
                Amazon has a few available.... but it looks like it's going to cost you.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  amazon

                  thanks--i will check that out--dd
                  the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limitations

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by doss darwin View Post
                    looks like it was printed last week--where were you able to find--history has a way of illuminating the present--it is always a good study--dd
                    A recent retired/closure library sale. Librarians book preservation is always beyond reproach.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AugustChief View Post
                      Boxing Skills
                      By Charles Roy Schroeder





                      Copy right 1973
                      AugustChief,

                      This page illustrates why I eventually decided to create my own system of technique names and a way to quickly (abbreviations) represent them in a method that allowed me to write specific combinations (for students practice or if I did it "by accident and wanted to remember...). And the technique names and written combinations had to allow for the fists, the elbows, the directions of movement (Elbows can hit bag in various directions), area of the bag struck, (front, back or sides) and number or rebounds inbetween each (sometimes 1,2 or 3 in the movements).

                      Doc used the term "elbow-gooseneck" and "elbow-gooseneck-follow through"

                      on your page 74

                      The "elbow-gooseneck" motion to him was hitting with the back of the elbow (moving outward) and letting the same side fist (right elbow-right fist) follow the elbow into the bag after one rebound (from one smooth movement). This movement looks like a gooses neck (hence the name). But what does the term "back elbow-gooseneck" tell you about the direction of the elbow movment, or number of parts hitting the bag. Is there a fist in this name?.... if you did not see this book or the pictures you would not really have any idea about that, and how would you use this to write specific combinations using this and four or five other striking skills that he describes on other pages. [ His back "back elbow-gooseneck" became my Outward-Double Elbow Strike (O-DES) ]

                      on page 75,

                      he decribes an "elbow-gooseneck-follow through" follow by the "other fist" straight punch after after one rebound.

                      So, for the Gooseneck follow-through, there was only one rebound between the elbow-fist, and now he added the other fist in after one rebound. So now you have an elbow+fist+fist with only one rebound inbetween, but the setup for this had three rebounds inbetween... so, which is the separate technique or single movement to learn, and where is the combination, or separation of "one skill" to another? He system does not really include specifics on that. [ His "back elbow-gooseneck-follow through" became my Outward-Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES) ]


                      I was lucky enough to have study directly from him so I immediately understand the pictures and know how many rebounds, but I found it very problematic to use his "31 striking skills" and terminology to teach my own group, for I didn't necessary teach just 31 striking skills (these were his idea of one combination being a skill..) Doc could easily flow from one skill to the other, non-stop for 3 minutes or more, but I could not come up with an quick systematic method to write that down to include fists, elbows and number of rebounds using his terminology or system. and ... I was doing some other movements (Downward, four ways) that he did not do - and some movements (side) actually allowed for 1,2 or 3 rebounds, depending on how you want to do it. How can a comprehensive speed bag teaching system account for them?



                      Unfortunately, his could not. IMO, there needed to be much more specifics to identifying individual movements (techniques) and how they are joined.

                      His book describes "31 striking bag skills" and I scribbled all over mine, trying to separate and identify individual techniques from combinations and eventually created the technique names and system for writing combinations described in my book. After my own study and practice long after I left memphis, I did not see "31 striking skills" I saw 24 techniques that can create hundreds of combination possiblities, and I needed to be able to write them because the students of 'My time" demanded it. They could not remember a complicated combition using the front, side and reverse areas of the bag with fists and elbows, so I wanted to come up with a reliable way to write it for them. The incessant and constant request to come up with a method to write down complicated speed bag combinations came from my friend and speed bag student of the time, Greg Bashara, who is a jazz saxophonist. As a bag student back in the early and mid 1980's he would lecture me about creating a system to write speed bag combiations like musical notes. He used to say, mozart was a genious on the piano and organ. But if he didn't write his music down, everything he knew would die with him - and if you die I'm never gonna remember how to do these speed bag combinations or learn the ones you have taught me yet...." for him.

                      but he was right. Mozart had the system of "writing music notation" that had been standardized for centuries. I did not have a time tested, standardized speed bag notation system accounting for both fists and elbows, so I set about creating it, pretty much to get Greg to shut up about it, but I also knew he was fundamentally right. There had to be a better way to teach and write speed bag skills. The result of that personal journey resulted in the system of The Speed Bag Bible.

                      In his own way, Doc did the same thing, and used his own way. For the record, Some "names" of speed bag movements have changed over the years. In 1904, they describe "tatooing the bag", to which doc called "riveting" to what I call a "Front Fist Roll" (F-Roll). Same movement, just different names.

                      Recently seen combinations and bag skills also have to be accounted for (phantom punches under elbows, reversing fist directions during a roll on either side of the bag...) and so it continues. Yes, I try to write every new combination I see done by others.


                      Anyway, I put my pages of his book 74-75 below with my own writings on it and the way I would eventually wrote this as a practice combination in The Speed Bag Bible, page 31 ex:#4
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Speedbag; 02-04-2013, 03:34 AM.
                      Speed Bag

                      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                      The Quest Continues...
                      Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                      THE 10th Year Reunion!

                      sigpic

                      The Art of the Bag

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Attention:Tim

                        Hey Tim, I would like to nominate this thread to be placed in the "Gold Mine" section on the forum, once it has reached its end.

                        Alan's description of his creation of a shorthand method of naming techniques and combinations needs to placed in the archives with the other classic speedbagging posts, as part of our "Hall of Fame" threads.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                          ...Mozart had the system of "writing music notation" that had been standardized for centuries. I did not have a time tested, standardized speed bag notation system accounting for both fists and elbows, so I set about creating it...
                          Can we call you Wolfgang?

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                          • #14
                            is it music or math

                            'Can we call you Wolfgang?"--actually Newton is the one that came up with calculus--all 3 systems of notation are difficult for me--the only way i can catch on at all is thru repetition of the basics--thanks alan--dd
                            the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limitations

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by doss darwin View Post
                              'Can we call you Wolfgang?"--actually Newton is the one that came up with calculus--all 3 systems of notation are difficult for me--the only way i can catch on at all is thru repetition of the basics--thanks alan--dd
                              Me too.
                              Speed Bag

                              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                              The Quest Continues...
                              Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                              THE 10th Year Reunion!

                              sigpic

                              The Art of the Bag

                              Comment

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