Trying more elbow strikes
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Great job Metaldad! What big improvement! Nothin' to say except keep going! One cool thing to try is to keep the rate of DES's and TES's the same as the rebounds in your FCP's and FDP's! That's why Alan Kahn can punch drum like no one; he has total control of the rhythm! And if you watch his clips, he gets such a great machine-like sound groove and power!
BAG ON!
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Originally posted by metaldad View PostHere's a couple of clips i did today before going to work.Trying to work the double and triple elbows, I'm not feeling too well lately, but I had to get back at it regardless.
The fist contact of the Outward-Double Elbow Strikes, (O-DES) is really a Front Straight Punch (FCP) at the point of contact. You might try linking that fist through to a Reverse Single Punch (RSP) to get the feel of leaving the elbow UP after contact, reducing your shoulder rotation. After the elbow hits, keep it at about the same height as your fist, moving it more outward to the home position rather than letting it drop in a downward arc. Notice in Video #2, :41-:47, as your left arm does several continuous O-DES ' ' ' O-DES, how low your elbow is when the fist hits the bag. It will be difficult to link to the reverse with that low elbow position. notice how your shoulder swing naturally takes the elbow down to the position, but to link you want to start learning to move the forearm (fist to elbow) more "across your body" than downward. This will bring the elbow more "out" to the home position (note: Outward motion, not downward..) and your can just extend your fist straight "thru the bag" to the Reverse Single Punch (RSP). The extension is only a few inches, because the pass happens when the bag is on the board, you don't have to drop your hand underneath it.
You are already doing this a Front Circle Punch (FCP) ' ' (RSP) I saw earlier in another video. It looks like this:
#1:
(O-DES) ' ' (RSP) ' ' (O-DES) ' ' (RSP)... all with the same arm. * The underline is the fist passing through the bag.
If you have problems with that, Reverse it by starting from the RSP. Do a few of those and then the O-DES. Looks like this.
#2
(RSP) ' ' ' (RSP) ' ' ' (RSP) ' ' (O-DES) ' ' (RSP) ' ' ' (RSP) ' ' ' (RSP) ' ' (O-DES) ' ' (RSP)....
The O-DES naturally follows a Front Straight Punch (FSP) of the same arm, so a nice flowing combo is:
Basic ' ' ' Right: R_(FSP) ' ' ' R_(O-DES) ' ' ' Left: L_(FSP) ' ' ' L_(O-DES) ' ' '...repeat.
You can progress that to include the RSP:
#3
Basic ' ' ' R_(FSP) ' ' ' R_(O-DES) ' ' R_(RSP) ' ' R-(FCP) ' ' ' Left: L_(FSP) ' ' ' L_(O-DES) ' ' L_(RSP) ' ' L-(FCP) ' ' '
The above should help you get more control of the O-DES. the elbow motions of the above will work just as well with the O-TES, and it's the key for the O-TES because once you get control of the outward elbow and arm position, you just add a FSP on to the end to make it a triple. AND when you start trying to link the LEAD fist of the O-TES, you will already know how to do it, because that is really #1 above.
Originally posted by metaldad View PostAlan, I was wondering if my bag looks too low maybe? I don't think it is but sometimes I feel otherwise.
Note: If you hold your arms out "straight" to the sides with your palms down. then bring the fists slowly to the center of your chest, your fists will be at your chin, or a bit lower. This means the angle of your shoulder to elbow is straight, and if you keep the forearms parallel and extend your fist(s) straight out a few inches and back, you can easily hit a bag if the belly is there. The problem is getting the belly of a bag that low without the board resting on your head. At least for me, a short teardrop shape 8x5 bag belly will get the board just touching my hair. It's a bit easier with a longer bag, like a regular 9x6.
The truth is, I find I can have the belly of most bags (depending on shape..) just a bit below my chin and still pass my fists comfortably underneath, and I use that lower position when my left shoulder is bothering me. The biggest problem I have with that low position is with the Downward Elbow movements, for my raised fist wants to hit the lowered board. Over time I have learned to adapt a bit by bending my knees (lowering myself and raising the bag belly...) to sneak in a few Downward Techniques when needed.
So, MetalDad, try to link your fists on that bag height and see if it works. If you can do (FCP) ' ' RSP ' ' (FCP) without a problem, it's not too low. On the other hand, If your upper (second) fist constantly hits the board on a Downward-Triple Elbow Strike, it's probably too low for that technique.Last edited by Speedbag; 09-22-2009, 09:29 PM.Speed Bag
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Originally posted by goju View PostLooks great MD.. I think i will TRY and give that a go today.. just hard to see fist positions via vids.. keep up the good work mateSpeed Bag
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Hey metal....I know spin mentioned trying to even the timing of each rebound. Now, I don't know if you've gotten to these yet but the quadruple elbow strike, "elbow, fist, fist, elbow" was really helpful to me with that. You see, the OTES can get you slightly off beat if you are trying to punchdrum or whatnot... but the quad hits the right number of rebounds to make it sound almost like you never stopped doing FSP (so long as you keep the timing the same throughout) hopefully I'm explaining myself correctly, its kinda hard to explain haha....best of luck to ya.
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Originally posted by Jordan View PostHey metal....I know spin mentioned trying to even the timing of each rebound. Now, I don't know if you've gotten to these yet but the quadruple elbow strike, "elbow, fist, fist, elbow" was really helpful to me with that. You see, the OTES can get you slightly off beat if you are trying to punchdrum or whatnot... but the quad hits the right number of rebounds to make it sound almost like you never stopped doing FSP (so long as you keep the timing the same throughout) hopefully I'm explaining myself correctly, its kinda hard to explain haha....best of luck to ya.sigpic
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Originally posted by Jordan View PostHey metal....I know spin mentioned trying to even the timing of each rebound. Now, I don't know if you've gotten to these yet but the quadruple elbow strike, "elbow, fist, fist, elbow" was really helpful to me with that. You see, the OTES can get you slightly off beat if you are trying to punchdrum or whatnot... but the quad hits the right number of rebounds to make it sound almost like you never stopped doing FSP (so long as you keep the timing the same throughout) hopefully I'm explaining myself correctly, its kinda hard to explain haha....best of luck to ya.Originally posted by metaldad View PostI haven't started on quadruples yet But it couldn't hurt to try right?
You could try other combos with the same rhythm....
A "phantom punch" (fist under the elbow, see Dee Pooler) into an Elbow, Fist , Fist.... Biff was just demonstrating that in his last vid. I think the "phantom punching" (Dee's term) is awesome. And overall, a little easier than what Jordan's "quads"! I am finally getting the quads together a bit after a year!
BAG ON!
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Originally posted by goju View Postwell you are the master bagger after all alan
Originally posted by Jordan View PostYeah spin is right they are hard, I just kinda look at it like combining a OTES and an ITES, the hard part is the last strike the outside elbow, easy to miss....but I found it fun to learn.
E-F\F ' ' ' F\F-E or advance it to ONE rebound: E-F\F ' F\F-E, but either way the LAST strike is the Inward-Elbow, which is the most difficult contact to follow anything with.
Metaldad, you are already doing the 4-beat pattern on your 4-punch fist rolls (R-L-R-L): From a punch drumming standpoint this is a better choice to link off of or maintain a steady beat. It is pretty hard to keep any reliable beat off an inward Elbow, because you can't really judge the power of it. Sure, you can use it - it's just not as easy to mix as a Fist Roll. It would be a good choice to "end" a song, a phrase of measure with, when you stop the bag or let a few unpunched beats float by, (resting beats), but to mix off it consistenly is harder do to the technique finish taking almost all your "sticks" (fists and elbows) out of position.
that is why you see most folks combining it with the same elbow leading back, which is pretty slick but difficult on a double bump like "some people do".Last edited by Speedbag; 09-23-2009, 07:45 PM.Speed Bag
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Originally posted by Jordan View PostYeah spin is right they are hard, I just kinda look at it like combining a OTES and an ITES, the hard part is the last strike the outside elbow, easy to miss....but I found it fun to learn.
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