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  • Elbow Combinations

    I need some help with my alternating O-TES, side to side with 1 rebound in between (although it doesn't look like it in this clip).

    I haven't taken the time to figure out the SBB notation. Basically I start off with an O-TES, pass both fists through, rotate fists and then a RDP, then an O-TES from the opposite side, into alternating O-TES with 1 rebound in between, then into a series of D-TES. I'd like to be able to do this several times without any breakdowns, and then incorporate it into a longer routine.

    There are some breakdowns and "clinks", but looking for some helpful criticisms. Let 'r rip.

    Last edited by Biff; 09-20-2009, 07:04 PM.

  • #2
    man looks awesome ima have to try that combo tomorrow.

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    • #3
      Bif, that's some great stuff! Nice to finally see you post a vid!
      I like the phantom punches before you hit the O and D-TESes! Sounds and looks cool!

      From watching I noticed two things.....and it reminds of things I have thought about while working on this stuff.....

      1. I like to try to keep all my rebounds at the same rate/pulse/tempo etc..
      Meaning, after I finish a TES or any kind of advanced combo, I want to hear the rebounds leading into the next punch as fast as the combo just hit.
      I notice you and The Baggist (until he put up the spin clip and Manic Depression) have slower rebounds after a combo. So maybe keep that in mind when practicing. It might help to set up the next combos better as well as forcing your pace of overall bagging to quicken up with the speed you are executing combos. You r combos in the vid are fast but the rebounds are slower....

      2. I cold be wrong, but it seems like your elbows are more or less "gliding" across the bag, not driving as much force as your fists. It is creating a "whip" type sound in your executions. I still think it sounds cool but the lack of elbow force maybe inhibiting the overall flow of the bag. You obviously have some great combos together so maybe these mentions will help bridge the gap to getting to the next level of intensity!
      Check out how solid Alan Kahn is when performing all these combos. He keeps a steady pulse and to me it makes his routines all the more impressive and hypnotic; the pulse stays the same yet he is throwing insane combos from all over the bag. Skunk does this too. I think it is an ultiimate sign of superior bag control and I hope to get there someday!

      Great job! BAG ON!

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      • #4
        Smokin Combos Biff!!! Everything looks good, Brian's advice about tempo, time, and pace is great as is making sure the last hit in your combo is crisp to make sure your rebounds keep pace (its been helping me lately). I think he's right about the outward elbow might need to be a little more zing on it also. Something that works for me is slowing the combos down as much as possible and just trying to keep them accurate, smooth, and consistent. Just a little fine tuning....... Keep the vids coming BIFF!!!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Biff View Post
          I need some help with my alternating O-TES, side to side with 1 rebound in between (although it doesn't look like it in this clip).

          I haven't taken the time to figure out the SBB notation. Basically I start off with an O-TES, pass both fists through, rotate fists and then a RDP, then an O-TES from the opposite side, into alternating O-TES with 1 rebound in between, then into a series of D-TES. I'd like to be able to do this several times without any breakdowns, and then incorporate it into a longer routine.

          There are some breakdowns and "clinks", but looking for some helpful criticisms. Let 'r rip.

          Actually you aren't doing anything wrong and your elbow combinations are pretty solid. SSP is correct that you elbows appear to slip a bit on the bag, as do your fist occassionally, but I think that is because your hestitating a bit, trying to "think" the combination. But I don't have any problem with your contacts, they sound pretty good.

          the only insight I could offer is what you're attempting to do, and the number of rebounds you're trying to use.

          you said: alternating O-TES with 1 rebound in between,

          In my book (not the SBB), this is an almost impossible combination. Alternating O-TES from the front require 3 rebounds, to do a
          L-L\R ' ' ' R-R\L. The last fist is either a Front Straight Punch (FSP) or Front Circle Punch (FCP), and the elbow of that fist has to keep going to put it in the O-TES set up position, which will be almost impossible on 1 rebound. I won't say it "can't" be done, but it is nearly impossible. You could go to a Downward-Triple Elbow Strike (D-TES) on 1 rebound, which is a much easier combination. Just let the last fist of the O-TES double bump the bag to lead the D-TES. That is pretty easy because the fist is already in the hitting zone, pretty much in perfect position to let the bag make one rebound into it. As you complete the O-TES, raise the other arm up to get the downward elbow pointing at the bag. It look like this:

          O-TES ' D-TES: Fist order could be Le-Lf\Rf ' Rf\Le-Lf

          You can also do an advance combo with one rebound inbetween the OTES and Inward Triple ES. It looks like this: O-TES ' I-TES.
          Let the last fist of the O-TES double bump the bag to lead the I-TES. Elbow-fist order is: Le-Lf\Rf ' Rf\Lf-Le.


          I'm thinking that you may be confusing the combination with the Side-Triple Elbow Strike. (S-TES). Perhaps you mean continous STES's but that will require two rebounds. You did a bunch of those very well, on 2 rebounds

          :25 sec STES x3 ( the lead Elbow-Fist is the same as an O-TES, but the last fist is a Side Single Punch (SSP).
          :51 sec STES x3
          1:03 sec STES x3
          1:18sec STES x5

          All had two rebounds between them, not one. A SSP to a front technique is normally two rebounds

          At :37 seconds you did a very nice combo
          O-TES ' ' RDP ' ' O-TES ' ' RDP ' ' S-TES ' ' S-TES ' ' S-TES. ( You rotated the RDP beautifully, which changed the lead of the next O-TES).

          Going to any Elbow Strike from a Reverse Single Punch (RSP), Reverse Double Punch (RDP) or Reverse Fist Roll (R-Roll) will require two rebounds, because the next strike by the elbow will hit the front of the bag.

          Originally posted by Biff View Post
          I need some help with my alternating O-TES, side to side with 1 rebound in between (although it doesn't look like it in this clip
          You are right. It doesn't look like that because it is "two" rebounds. You're not doing Alternating O-TES, you are doing S-TES ' ' STES....

          You 're doing it fine from what I see. Your bag speed may be varying a little due to "thinking the combination" and letting the last fist of a technique hit a bit lighter on the bag. Very common when concentrating on a certain combo, particularly complex ones.

          I'm not sure if this helps, but that's the way I interpret what your doing.
          Last edited by Speedbag; 09-21-2009, 02:26 PM.
          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
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          • #6
            Biff, i think your combos look very good- keep doing what ur doing and you will only keep getting better!!

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            • #7
              Kyle, BT, Baggist, Alan and Adam - thanks for taking the time to comment on the clip.

              Originally posted by spinsmashpop
              2. I cold be wrong, but it seems like your elbows are more or less "gliding" across the bag, not driving as much force as your fists.
              Brian you're right about the "glancing" elbows. I guess I'm trying to get the next combo off before finishing the first one.

              Originally posted by The Baggist
              Something that works for me is slowing the combos down as much as possible and just trying to keep them accurate, smooth, and consistent. Just a little fine tuning...
              Control, then speed; thanks for the reminder, Baggist.

              Originally posted by speedbag
              I'm thinking that you may be confusing the combination with the Side-Triple Elbow Strike. (S-TES). Perhaps you mean continous STES's but that will require two rebounds.
              [Homer Simpson]DOH[/Homer Simpson]

              Right again, Alan. That's exactly what I was attempting. No wonder it didn't look or sound like 1 rebound!!!!
              Guess I better dust off the SBB, or at least concentrate on what I'm reading. I think I'm developing A.D.D. in my old age.

              Originally posted by speedbag
              You 're doing it fine from what I see. Your bag speed may be varying a little due to "thinking the combination" and letting the last fist of a technique hit a bit lighter on the bag. Very common when concentrating on a certain combo, particularly complex ones.
              BINGO. One of my biggest drawbacks is not having a feel for what's coming next. I'm "thinking" about the next combination instead of letting things flow smoothly. I hope that comes with experience.

              Again, thanks everyone for the comments. It's always helpful to get feedback from the best.

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              • #8
                Wow Biff!! You look awesome!
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Thats really good Biff.. nice vid fella

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Biff View Post


                    [Homer Simpson]DOH[/Homer Simpson]

                    Right again, Alan. That's exactly what I was attempting. No wonder it didn't look or sound like 1 rebound!!!!
                    Guess I better dust off the SBB, or at least concentrate on what I'm reading. I think I'm developing A.D.D. in my old age....
                    OK, so just to really confuse you ( ) you can go to a RDP after a S-TES on 1 rebound. Or three. It looks like this:

                    (S-TES) ' (RDP). Starting with the left, the Elbow fist order is:

                    Le-Lf\RF ' Lf-Rf

                    the underlined R is the SSP of the S-TES. You could leave the leading elbow off, and you have a SDP ' RDP. You can also do it on 3 rebounds: SDP ' ' ' RDP, which looks like this: Lf-RF ' Lf-Rf

                    When going to a RDP from the Side with 3 rebounds inbetween, you can use any fist order for the RDP. For instance you can do...

                    S-TES ' ' ' RDP in this order: Le-Lf\Rf ' ' ' Rf-Lf.

                    Notice the Rf hits twice in a row, like SSP ' ' ' RSP.

                    Or you can change the fist order of that RDP to Le-Lf\Rf ' ' ' Lf-Rf.

                    This is similiar to what Biff is doing by "rotating the fists" in the RDP, but when coming from the Side, you don't really roll the fists over (rotate) each other as much as have a choice which one to lead with. (* you have the choice when using 3 rebounds. When using only 1 rebound you don't have time to go from a SSP ' RSP with the same arm. You have to "Roll" this connection in a constant L-R-L-R fist order, like this: L-R ' L-R. The first L leads the SDP, hitting from the front of the bag. The first R is the SSP connection. The second L is the lead fist of the RDP. The Left fist got there by hitting the front of the bag in the SDP, then passing through as the Right did the SSP. As the L fist leads the RDP, the Right rolls a bit down and up behind the left, following it into the bag after one rebound.)
                    Speed Bag

                    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                    The Quest Continues...
                    Hoping for another Gathering...


                    sigpic

                    The Art of the Bag

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nice work Biff

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                      • #12
                        Great work Biff. You were doing the S-TES and didn't even know it! (or knew it but called it another name). You got some kudos from the master, so things can't be too bad!

                        Always good to see another melon ball in action.

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                        • #13
                          BINGO. One of my biggest drawbacks is not having a feel for what's coming next. I'm "thinking" about the next combination instead of letting things flow smoothly. I hope that comes with experience.
                          I think it does ... I do stuff over and over and over, and until such time that I can do it instinctively it just doestn't work well. I think it takes 1000 times to learn some of these (at least for me it does.). So sometime around S-TES #999 I'll be able to do it instinctively and not have to think it. BTW I can't do S-TES alternating whatsoeverbut it's a pretty cool move!

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                          • #14
                            combos

                            wow Biff good to see ya vid,the combos are all there mate,i agree with Sissor
                            justkeep doing it and those glancing punches will become minnimal,deano

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