Any Major Dude

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  • Jake
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 113

    Any Major Dude



    I keep waiting for that day when I shoot a great video with no miss hits, no CD skips, good lighting, etc. But it might never happen. So I'll post this video anyway.

    Balaz Lazer XS Bag, with Powermill Evil Swivel. As usual I have a strip of Duct Tape wrapped around the Eyebolt Shank. I took the swivel down the other day and gave it a good inspection. There is very little wear on the housing. The Duct Tape seems to be working well as a bushing to reduce wear. It definetly works well for making the swivel quiet.
    Last edited by Jake; 04-29-2013, 11:56 AM.
  • cmedinas88
    Member
    • Jan 2013
    • 79

    #2
    Killer moves can't wait to Be on that level

    Comment

    • Marlon
      Member
      • Apr 2013
      • 94

      #3
      Nice work, Bro! Those transitions are smooth...especially the side to side & elbow stuff.

      I think your choice of music might be slowing you down though. You seem to speed up when the music cuts out.

      Once I feel I won't (completely) embarrass myself I will get a video up here too.

      Comment

      • Speedbag
        Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

        • Feb 2006
        • 7118

        #4
        Originally posted by Jake View Post


        I keep waiting for that day when I shoot a great video with no miss hits, no CD skips, good lighting, etc. But it might never happen. So I'll post this video anyway.

        Balaz Lazer XS Bag, with Powermill Evil Swivel. As usual I have a strip of Duct Tape wrapped around the Eyebolt Shank. I took the swivel down the other day and gave it a good inspection. There is very little wear on the housing. The Duct Tape seems to be working well as a bushing to reduce wear. It definetly works well for making the swivel quiet.
        Oh yea! We got another punch drummer in the house!

        Here's a few observations. Hope this is not too confusing....

        From song start 00:00- 1:58 or so: Sound like you are hitting in Syncopated combinations, matching beats. Ingenious use of Out-&-In Four ways Elbows double bumping the last inward to the outward transition. (it normally happens on 3 rebounds, you are doing it on "1", which appears like a double bump, but it is just doing it faster. Brilliant connection and done with great control. That combination actually makes the sound of a Front Fist Roll (hitting bag repetitively after one rebound) but the accent pattern is a bit different, and groovier, the way you are doing it. I am envious for I've yet to master that with enough control to use reliably with a song.

        2:00 min: You changed to hitting in Basic Rhythm punching, and to sync those beats you have to speed up to do it. (this actually depends on the song. To change from one style to other you have to change punching speed and force, but it depends on the song you hitting to. for this one, you did have to go faster to make them match.) In Basic Rhythm punching (also called straight time punching) You see how the repetitive Front Double Punches (FDP) must go faster to fall in time? Remember, that happens in the triplet rhythm, with three rebounds inbetween, and the last fist hits "on the beat" of the music. Well, you can also do the combination of Front Double Punch to Reverse Double Punch (FDP ' ' RDP), and keep the second fist "on the beat", and it will be a bit easier and slower, since the last fist of each must land "on the beat" but it will happen a bit slower since that combination happens in the double bounce rhythm and requires ONE less rebound between the second fists hitting on the beat, so you don't have to punch as hard. In the triplet rhythm, The FDP ' ' ' FDP combinations has 5 rebounds between the second fists landing, the for FDP ' ' RDP, there 4 rebounds between the second fists landing. Since the space of time between the music beats remains the same, it will take less force for the bag to make four rebound then five, so you would punch a bit slower to do the FDP ' ' RDP combo, let the second fist land "on the beat" and you will stay in perfect time. You started doing FDP ' ' RDP at 2:46 but I think you were concentrating on doing the combination more than matching the beats they make to the music, for I hear those combinations as being a bit too fast, so the accented bag beats were not really in sync to the song. That is a common misconception of Punch Drumming, trying (like normally speed bag punching) to keep everything at the same pace for bag timing, but when punch drumming you more concerned with keeping your the bags accented beats in time with the music beat, and you will often change bag speed and power required a lot. Using that same idea, you can also do FDP ' ' RDP ' ' SDP ' ' SDP ' '...repeat very easily by letting the second fist of each double punch land "on the beat" of the song. That makes an accented beat very common to music dD - dD - dD - dD. (You did try that combo also at 2:50 in the song)

        That combination also follows the rule that when punch drumming in straight time, as you are doing (or sounds like...) at 2:00 on, you can change sides of the bag by double punching on the side you are going to. For instance, If you are doing the basic rhythm from the front (single fist punching in the triplet rhythm), you can go to the back of the bag by doing a passing both fists to a Reverse Double Punching (RDP - 2nd fist hits ON the beat), and come out of that with the second fist staying behind and doing Reverse Single Punching (RSP) in the triplet rhythm, but now you are behind the bag. You were doing single punching in the triplet rhythm from in front of the bag, then you changed to single fist punching behind the bag, by changing sides with the RDP. When you want to return to the front, the bring the fist doing RSP behind the bag to the front, do a FDP, and let the second fist come out again to triple rhythm punching in front. That is how you quickly change sides of the bag when punching in straight time.


        When you started doing the Outward Triple Elbow Striking (O-TES) combination at 2:33 and after, you should want to put the last fist of that technique on the song beat, so this will require 6 rebounds in between the last fists, but for the Double punching you only needed 5 rebounds between the second fists landing, so you will again have to punch harder to do the O-TES ' ' ' O-TES combo. Now, if you wanted to go from the O-TES ' ' ' O-TES the RDP ' ' FDP (pass both fists through to RDP after OTES to start this..) you will have to really back off the punching power to slow the bag speed down or you'll fall off beat to the music. The point if, you will often have to change power and swing speed to successfully punch drum to music. The actual drummer doesn't not maintain constant stick speed, for many fills and rudiments require more and faster stick contacts than others. for punch drumming, the bag is the equal to the drummers sticks, and the force and power needed changes often during a song. the listener just hears it all as "on the beat".

        You staying "on beat" with the music for a great deal of the song, and we all fall on an off the beat when doing this occasionally. I'm really impressed with your progress, and a bit envious of some of those out-ward 4 ways on one rebound in-between. that takes amazing control to pull off as many times as you're doing it. Great job!

        I created a little graphic to demonstrate how the number of rebounds changes in between certain combinations discussed above. Perhaps this will help you see how many more times the bag has to rebound to pull off certain combinations, and you can imagine how you must adjust punch power and speed to make these stay lined up with the music. this is just for the front punching techniques. I can make another one for FDP ' ' RDP if you need it.

        I hope it makes sense to you and isn't too confusing... (makes perfect sense to me )
        Attached Files
        Speed Bag

        Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
        *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
        The Quest Continues...
        Hoping for another Gathering...


        sigpic

        The Art of the Bag

        Comment

        • Zaza
          Speed Bag Guru
          • Apr 2011
          • 2000

          #5
          Well done Jake! You make those 4-way elbows look effortless...I don't think I'll ever get those down. I sure hope you make it to SPEED B.A.G. IV gathering in Keyport, NJ (July 13-15th).
          Art of the Bag - A Speed Bag Story
          http://www.artofthebag.com

          Comment

          • Speedbag
            Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

            • Feb 2006
            • 7118

            #6
            Originally posted by Zaza View Post
            Well done Jake! You make those 4-way elbows look effortless...I don't think I'll ever get those down. I sure hope you make it to SPEED B.A.G. IV gathering in Keyport, NJ (July 13-15th).
            I have not seen those used so smoothly in Punch Drumming. Matthew threw a few of those to a song last year in NJ, but only two or three in a row, not repetitive like Jake is doing. I'm pretty sure Matt can, but this is the first I've seen it done like that. Kinda like G-Towns alternating accent fist rolls.

            I Still can't do that one either!
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Hoping for another Gathering...


            sigpic

            The Art of the Bag

            Comment

            • paranday
              Speed Bag Guru
              • Sep 2009
              • 2515

              #7
              Great demonstration of control of the speed bag.

              Comment

              • Jake
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2011
                • 113

                #8
                Thanks everyone for the positive helpful comments!

                I still can't figure out how to do multiple quotes on my reply. I have to get back to work now, but I will take a look later.

                Any tips on submitting a reply with multi quotes?

                Comment

                • Speedbag
                  Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                  • Feb 2006
                  • 7118

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jake View Post
                  Thanks everyone for the positive helpful comments!

                  I still can't figure out how to do multiple quotes on my reply. I have to get back to work now, but I will take a look later.

                  Any tips on submitting a reply with multi quotes?
                  In a blast from the past, there was a thread on that...



                  From Tim: (forum adm) 1-14-2009



                  This works and works well.

                  Here's the "fancy" way to do it... you can also use the "multi-quote" button:


                  Scroll through the thread and click on it for each individual post you want to quote. It will turn red. When you get to the bottom of the thread, click Post Reply... ALL the text you selected will then be present with the QUOTE /QUOTE tags.
                  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                  Look to bottom right of a post, see "edit" "Quote" and the a box with Big ' ' +

                  that is the multiple quote button.
                  Last edited by Speedbag; 04-30-2013, 12:37 PM.
                  Speed Bag

                  Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                  *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                  The Quest Continues...
                  Hoping for another Gathering...


                  sigpic

                  The Art of the Bag

                  Comment

                  • fedora
                    Speed Bag Guru
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 471

                    #10
                    Am I just not seeing it right, but when you are doing your 4 way elbow strike and transition back to the other side, it looks like the bag is only hitting the platform one time or maybe twice. Is that right?? I'm just not seeing it hit 3 times before you come back from the other side. If so, how in the heck do you do that? I always thought it had to hit 3 times, but maybe I just haven't progressed enough yet.

                    Alan, if you read this, how do you see it??

                    fedora
                    Last edited by fedora; 04-30-2013, 04:15 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Speedbag
                      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                      • Feb 2006
                      • 7118

                      #11
                      Originally posted by fedora View Post
                      Am I just not seeing it right, but when you are doing your 4 way elbow strike and transition back to the other side, it looks like the bag is only hitting the platform one time or maybe twice. Is that right?? I'm just not seeing it hit 3 times before you come back from the other side. If so, how in the heck do you do that? I always thought it had to hit 3 times, but maybe I just haven't progressed enough yet.

                      Alan, if you read this, how do you see it??

                      fedora
                      Surely you don't expect a quick answer on this.....

                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                      If you mean how is "Jake" doing it in this video using ONE rebound, which is the advanced method. He first does it Slowly twice at :27 - :31
                      R-R-L-L ' L-L-R-R ' R-R-L-L ' L-L-R-R ' R (O-DES). He does it again x6 at :32 - :42. Normally, the Out and In 4-way Elbow Strike (O-I 4-way) would use three rebounds inbetween. You will see that written in the SBB book, exercise 3 page 74. It is in the middle of that exercise.

                      The hard part of what Jake is doing on "one" rebound can be seen when you break it down to it's component parts, the Double Elbow Strikes which are joined together to create the four way technique.

                      Notice, his second arm of the O-I 4-way, which is doing the Inward Double Elbow (FSP + Inward ES), and then repeating to an Outward Double Elbow strike. This transition happens easily on three rebounds.

                      Try it this way

                      R-(I-DES) ' ' ' R-(O-DES). To advance this, you can do this with ONE rebound, and notice you are kind of double bumping the elbow to do this. The first contact (bump) is the Inward Elbow, and then the second (double bump) is the outward elbow contact. It's a difficult double bump, because normally when you double bump the bag the part "bumping" (making contact) does not change position, but here it does, hitting the front of the elbow, then the back of the elbow.

                      It looks like this:

                      R-(I-DES) ' R-(O-DES), which is a F-E ' E-F contact order.

                      that is the heart of the difficulty with this combination. I personally practice that combo a lot, trying to find the timing to recover from the inward motion to the outward within one rebound. He does it beautifully within the four way, which I can do when I'm lucky enough to pull it off, about half the time at the moment.

                      Interestingly enough, look closely and you will see that he does it again at 1:34, but the bag makes TWO rebounds. I created a screen capture of that and put it on the bottom left to show it clearly for it is hard to pick by just watching....

                      This IS possible. There are a few combinations on the speed bag that are possible to complete on "odd number" rebounds (1,3) or "even number" (2,4). Simply put, you can chose to use 1,2 or 3 rebounds inbetween.

                      This may seem strange but it happens a bit when using the Side Single Punch (SSP), and I never really noticed it on the inward-outward elbow combinations until I noticed Deano doing these on two rebounds, and Skunk doing them on one or two rebounds. Deano makes it happen due to the angle of his elbow contacting the bag more on the side of the bag then the front, but skunk clearly would hit the front of the bag. After playing with it for a while I found that it was really a mixture of timing, and chosing if you want to use 1,2,3 rebounds. It is obvious in this video Jake is doing an Inward Elbow contact-to-Outward Elbow contact with 1 or 2 rebounds fairly easily.

                      By the way, in the opening he is doing the Front Fist Roll (F-Roll) mixing in Outward-Double Elbow Strikes (O-DES) into that techinque,

                      F-Roll ' O-DES ' F-Roll. Picture on the right below.

                      (If you add the "other fist" onto the O-DES you could also view this as an Outward-Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES). So, you could write this as either

                      F-Roll ' O-DES ' F-Roll. or F-Roll ' O-TES ' F-Roll
                      and either method would be correct. The way you write it (if you did...) would depend on how you see it or visualize doing it.

                      Me personally, I see it as the O-DES, because of how the next fist contacts the bag. Either way it is a pretty cool combination.

                      (Jake: hope you don't mind using some captures of your video... It's a pretty good way to demonstrate something)
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Speedbag; 04-30-2013, 09:00 PM.
                      Speed Bag

                      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                      The Quest Continues...
                      Hoping for another Gathering...


                      sigpic

                      The Art of the Bag

                      Comment

                      • fedora
                        Speed Bag Guru
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 471

                        #12
                        Well I guess I was seeing it right, but wow! I think I'll skip that one for a while. Thanks for the break down Alan, you are the only one that could break it down like that. Still not sure how you can get that in one rebound, I've tried it to no avail. Not even close. I'll try your suggestions Alan and see if I can come closer. Jake makes it look so easy and natural.

                        fedora
                        Last edited by fedora; 04-30-2013, 11:45 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Speedbag
                          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                          • Feb 2006
                          • 7118

                          #13
                          Originally posted by fedora View Post
                          Well I guess I was seeing it right, but wow! I think I'll skip that one for a while. Thanks for the break down Alan, you are the only one that could break it down like that. Still not sure how you can get that in one rebound, I've tried it to no avail. Not even close. I'll try your suggestions Alan and see if I can come closer. Jake makes it look so easy and natural.

                          fedora
                          Actually, it will be easier to learn if you break it down, because in this case, Less is more. By that I mean, the less movement you make, the more likely you are to succeed in doing this combination in one rebound.

                          It has to do with the angle of the bag and stopping your inward moving arm just after the point of contact. By that I mean when the forearm part of your inward elbow hits the bag, the bag goes to the board. you've only got one quick rebound to move your arm so the outward point of that elbow (back of the arm) hits the bag. So, if when your inward elbow connects you pretty much have to stop that inward movement, going less than an inch or so from that point. If you go further you will not recover to hit the bag on ONE rebound. This is more about bag contact position and rebound angle. Remember, when you "double bump" the fist, or an outward elbow for that matter, you don't hit and move the fist again, the bag rebounds back into the fist for the second (or double) rebound. you push the fist after the bag hits it a second time. I find it is pretty much the same this combination. The inward elbow connect and I stop my forward arm motion, adding a very slight body turn (which is natural for an inward elbow..) and then start back immediately with the outward point of the elbow, and if the timing is right you should connect the bag at about the point in the rebound where it is straight under the swivel. That is about as far into that first rebound as you can do this. If you move a bit too far forward with the arm, the bag will be making the second rebound, and you will hit it them. Hence, two rebounds.

                          But to do it on ONE rebound, hit the inward elbow, hold, then swing lightly for the outward elbow. It's all timing and rebound angle.

                          If the inward area of your elbow hits the "sweet spot" of the bag, the rebound angle will be one way, if it hits a bit off the center, toward the outward edge of the bag, the rebound angle will be slightly different. You will learn which contact area works for you. I find when I miss that ONE rebound it is because my inward elbow contact point "wandered" from where it should be.

                          anyway, practice it with the reduced segments, Inward Double Elbow, one Rebound, Outward Double Elbow. (I-DES) ' (O-DES)

                          Actually you can reduce it further and eliminate the fist punches
                          Inward Single Elbow, one rebound Outward Single Elbow
                          (I-SES) ' (O-SES)

                          also practice this with two rebounds to feel the slight timing difference.
                          (I-SES) ' ' (O-SES)
                          Speed Bag

                          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                          The Quest Continues...
                          Hoping for another Gathering...


                          sigpic

                          The Art of the Bag

                          Comment

                          • Jake
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 113

                            #14
                            I need to keep my mind on work as much as possible today, but I just want to quickly say-
                            Allen your break down of the 4-ways is very helpful.

                            I picked this song because it had a good beat for doing these 4-ways with 1 bounce.
                            When I speed up these strikes, I think I end up with an extra little bump on the elbow, before I can get the outward strike in. I'm not sure if that extra bump hits the board. Maybe lightly. This gives a beat like 1234-1234-1234
                            Where as when I slow it down I can keep a steady beat 123456789......

                            I have been trying to figure out exactly what is going on with the pause between 1234 when I speed up the 4-way strike. There must be an extra bounce during that pause. I'm thinking it's just a light quiet bump. I don't think I did any of these faster 4-ways in this last video.

                            I find keeping the elbows up, and bringing the fists in right under the chin, helps me. I also found just stepping or leaning back a little seemed to give a little longer rebound. Giving me more time to go from the inward to outward strike.

                            Ya know I was just thinking- When you hit that outward elbow after the inward, does the bag has to travel further? Then any of the last 4 strikes, to the other side of the board. This would explain why it's extra work to keep a steady 123456789... beat.

                            I could talk about this stuff all day, but.....
                            Last edited by Jake; 05-01-2013, 10:45 AM.

                            Comment

                            • fedora
                              Speed Bag Guru
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 471

                              #15
                              Thanks for the break down and suggestions Alan. The learning never ends with this sport.

                              fedora

                              Comment

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