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Analysis of Rocky Greiner's advanced Combos

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  • Speedbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Roc Stone View Post
    Thanks Alan. You were able to decipher my incorrect symbols (SSD)-(SSP), grasp my meaning and provide me with options. I like that.
    You did throw in a few abbreviated symbols that I had to think about, but If you are that deep into the book and exercises, then I can usually make an educated guess where the sticking point is in any given combination. There are only a few places in this combo #3 that pertains to a super-advanced combo. A lot of the other combinations in the line are pretty simple at this level.

    Originally posted by Roc Stone View Post
    Say! would you be able to do up a vid of that entire routine, from #1 - #8. Would love to see it in motion.
    Are you kidding? I sat and wrote these combinations 16 years ago, air punching them while sitting in front of a computer. Each combination would advance something from the last, or add a new element, to bring in all the elements of "advanced" (same side) and "super-advanced" (different sides) combinations together, mixed with other punching skills from earlier chapters. Each of the different 8 combination lines was done for specific reasons that I have long since forgot.

    But I just sat and wrote them, I didn't ever really do them.



    just kidding about that last part. I did each many times to make sure the hands and rebounds were correct. I have often thought about making a video that shows all the practice combinations in the Book, so people could see and hear them, But decided against it just because of the sheer volume of them, and that many have such a slight difference from the last of next, it wouldn't really be worth it. I think Air punching each combo as you read it is a far simplier method to use than trying to reference what I do on a screen. I suggest that people put their hands up in the correct position, do the movements as they read and voice out the accented (punched) rebounds. At least, it works for me. I figured to do the whole book, It would takes many hours of video shooting on my part, then twice that for editing.

    But I still occassionally worry about the Chapter 10 advanced and chapter 11 echo rhythms. For the people at that level of dedication, really following the written word and trying to decipher the movements and sounds underneath, I have often thought a demo of most exercises would help. But I wouldn't post something that specific to the book on Youtube. It would be done SLOWLY, to see the movements, for teaching purposes. Not very entertaining to be sure.

    For the record, on Disk-4 of the 4-DVD series, is titled "Advanced punching combinations" where I do cover the topics of chapter 10 and 11. I don't think I did any specific combinations that are in the book, but I did cover every main topic heading in those chapters, such as "advanced" and "super-advanced" combinations, advanced elbows, advanced reverse techniques, advanced side techniques and echo rhythms (ehco = reproducing a specific beat pattern from all around the bag. The sound stays the same, but the punching combinations are different.) This video is NOT a beginners level video, and I say that during the opening. This video starts with a review of the 24 techniques and then jumps directly into advanced topics. It is also a closer camera focus than the other videos, to see the bag areas better. Many of my fist movement variations and changes are subtle and hard to see from a half body focus length, so I zoomed in to see the bag closer.

    That video #4 would be a good companion to the single 2-hr DVD, for the single DVD does not cover advanced combinations. I have thought about offering it for sale as a stand alone video. But I do recommend it, (and send it) to individuals interested at that level. Right now you can only get it individually from me, for it is only sold by Ringside Boxing right now in the packaged set. If interested in the 4-DVD set, or DVD-4, PM me personally via the board.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Sorry I got side tracked there, Roc. For your question, I'll consider doing those 8 lines on page 152, but I can't really promise when I'll get to it. I'll have to memorize each and then shoot it individually, then perhaps edit them into one long combo (that's why they all start and end with Fist Rolls). in the meantime, PM me your address.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
    .L/R-R.......R/L-L
    (I-TES) ' (I-TES) ' ....repeat.
    .f/f-E.........f/f-E
    Thanks! that helps a lot. I've got the F-ROLL ' I-TES going now, but I can't do the I-TES ' I-TES yet... I think that part is going to take a lot more practice. My I-TES when leading with the right is really weak. I don't hit with the point of the elbow well, so I have to bring that up to speed first.

    BillyMack almost separates the fists in this combo and make it an Inward-Double Elbow Strike ' Fist combo when he does it. I would write
    Sigh... he's make it look SO easy in that video clip!

    Leave a comment:


  • Roc Stone
    replied
    Thanks Alan. You were able to decipher my incorrect symbols (SSD)-(SSP), grasp my meaning and provide me with options. I like that.

    Say! would you be able to do up a vid of that entire routine, from #1 - #8. Would love to see it in motion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Roc Stone View Post
    Its the the L ' (SSD) that I have problems connecting with, still developing the rythm for it. I have tried angling the last fist of the (D-TES) to set up for the L(SSD)*!@%, but I just have not yet got a grip on performing it cleanly, on a consistant basis. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't, and yes I do move the L lead fist to a stand by position in anticipation. But its just not clicking for me yet. "Practice, exercise..."

    Because this is creating a bit of a barrier at this point it disrupts my continuing the compltetion of the pattern.
    If you mean the LEAD Left Fist of the D-TES, then maybe try the left fist movement without the Downward Elbow motion.

    Actually, the D-TES is nothing more than a Front Double Punch (FDP) with an Elbow in the Middle . So, just substitute a FDP for the
    D-TES.

    .L-L/R.....R-R/L......L-R.....L......R-L
    S-TES ' ' S-TES ' ' FDP ' SSP ' RDP

    or you can change the D-TES to an easier Outward-Elbow Strike (that is just a FDP with an elbow in front.)

    The lead fist which goes to the SSP can connect on the side-rear area of the bag, much like a RSP, just slightly more on the side.

    But on these super-advanced combo's your are right that "sometimes you get them, so times you don't" because it all happens really quick with only one rebound inbetween.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roc Stone
    replied
    Its the the L ' (SSD) that I have problems connecting with, still developing the rythm for it. I have tried angling the last fist of the (D-TES) to set up for the L(SSD)*!@%, but I just have not yet got a grip on performing it cleanly, on a consistant basis. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't, and yes I do move the L lead fist to a stand by position in anticipation. But its just not clicking for me yet. "Practice, exercise..."

    Because this is creating a bit of a barrier at this point it disrupts my continuing the compltetion of the pattern.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Roc Stone View Post
    It could also be seen as:
    ......L.............R
    (O-SSP) ' ((I-DES) ', swap ' repeat.

    Its tricky, every time I do the swap the bag just wants to roll along my arm on the (I-DES), but as far as dificulty goes for me, #3 on P-152 of the 'Bible', advanced skills and combinations takes the cake.

    "Ohh - Heck", I know its only #3 and I've still got another 5x# to get through, but those super advanced punch patterns quite hard to maintain accurate consistancy. As far as progress goes, I have hit through to the begining of #5 successfully, but only once.

    "Hey"! You guy's got any idea on how I can get one of those DVD's by speedbag-advocate over here to Australia? Maybe I could send someone a pre-paid return envelope... Any assistance would be appreciated and returned. Thank you.
    What is so hard for you on #3, page 152??

    1. I'm assuming you can do the (S-TES) ' ' (S-TES) ' ' (D-TES) alright? ( also called a "triple triple")

    2. What about the (D-TES) ' (SSP) ' (RDP) ? (* see Ex 7 page 150. it's the same combo.)

    3. or maybe the middle (SSP) ' (RDP) '' (FSP) '' (RSP)? ( split fist combo )

    I suspect #2 is the hardest to figure out. The lead fist of the D-TES hits the front of the bag and will do the SSP. (just like FCP ' ' SSP with same arm. It just has to wait for the Elbow-Fist to clear). The second fist of the D-TES hits and goes behind to lead the RDP.

    Where is your break down in this combo?

    Leave a comment:


  • Roc Stone
    replied
    It could also be seen as:
    ......L.............R
    (O-SSP) ' ((I-DES) ', swap ' repeat.

    Its tricky, every time I do the swap the bag just wants to roll along my arm on the (I-DES), but as far as dificulty goes for me, #3 on P-152 of the 'Bible', advanced skills and combinations takes the cake.

    "Ohh - Heck", I know its only #3 and I've still got another 5x# to get through, but those super advanced punch patterns quite hard to maintain accurate consistancy. As far as progress goes, I have hit through to the begining of #5 successfully, but only once.

    "Hey"! You guy's got any idea on how I can get one of those DVD's by speedbag-advocate over here to Australia? Maybe I could send someone a pre-paid return envelope... Any assistance would be appreciated and returned. Thank you.
    Last edited by Roc Stone; 01-04-2008, 11:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    I thought he looked familiar!

    So he's actually doing a triple strike with each arm?

    Fist - Elbow - Fist
    Change Arms
    Fist - Elbow - Fist

    ???? Like an I-DES and an O-DES melded together?
    Writing this depends on which unique combo you are talking about. He does a few really interesting ones.

    for the alternating inward elbow combo, you could write this several ways. He normally starts this from a Front-Fist Roll (F-Roll) : or actually Front fist "riveting" (continuous Front Straight Punching with one rebound inbetween).

    I find it easiest to write this combo using the Inward-Triple Elbow Strike (I-TES), and he is doing an advance front punching combo of continuous alternating Inward- Triple Elbow Strikes.

    Consider the I-TES. A lead fist hits in FCP position (side of fist), then the second fist hits in FSP position (front of fist), then the forearm point of elbow hits the bag - all with only one rebound inbetween. This ends with your body turned and you elbow in the middle of the board. (awkward). From here, you could alternate the other side I-TES after 3 rebounds, but it is a difficult combination. He actually advances it, by alternating to the other side after 1 rebound, (which I call an "advanced combo" , using 1 rebound instead of 3).

    I would write it the short way, like this:

    .L/R-R.......R/L-L
    (I-TES) ' (I-TES) ' ....repeat.
    .f/f-E.........f/f-E

    He does not make an outward elbow contact in this particular combination.

    It might be easier to "imagine" seeing the fist contacts as a Front Double Punch (FDP), with the lead fist hitting the side of the fist in Front Circle Punch (FCP) Position, and the second fist hitting in Front Straight Punch (*FSP) position. (* this is KEY, for you can't do this combo if the second fist hits the side of the fist. You really have to hit the front knuckles, moving the fist directly inward to the bag, which allows the elbow position to correctly line up for the inward single elbow)

    It could also be writteng like this:

    .L-R.......R.........R-L.........L
    (FDP) ' I-SES ' (FDP) ' I-SES' ....repeat

    or written like this with each individual contact:

    L.........R........R.......R......L........L..
    FCP ' FSP ' I-SES ' FCP ' FSP ' I-SES' ....repeat


    For the Record, the only other people I have seen perform this specific combo fast and in a controlled manner are Zach "speed bag skunk" Ruffo, and Billymack - both doing it remarkedly on small 8x5 or 9x6 bags.


    BillyMack almost separates the fists in this combo
    and make it an Inward-Double Elbow Strike ' Fist combo when he does it. I would write that like this:

    ..R-R.....R.......L-L........L
    I-DES ' FCP ' I-DES ' FCP
    ..f-e.....................f-e

    It is the same Rist-Elbow sequence but opened up a bit. It is an interesting method and he does it very smoothly.

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Rocky also does some original combo's with the Outward Elbow and Hook Punch, but if you notice - he changes the swivel before he does this.

    Regardless of the swivel, these are some really difficult and well done combinations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    I thought he looked familiar!

    So he's actually doing a triple strike with each arm?

    Fist - Elbow - Fist
    Change Arms
    Fist - Elbow - Fist

    ???? Like an I-DES and an O-DES melded together?
    Last edited by Tim; 01-04-2008, 09:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    Actually, you have seen them (and him) before, for "Rocky" (Pete) Greiner is this guy....

    Amazing Speed Bag combination (* I'm still fascinated by that combo.. )

    83 year old speed bagger...

    Note that he has modified his swivel so it "locks" into a position for hitting from the front, or from the side. He also made his own board and pole attachment. He lives down by Ernie in Sarasota Florida.
    Last edited by Speedbag; 01-04-2008, 09:21 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    started a topic Analysis of Rocky Greiner's advanced Combos

    Analysis of Rocky Greiner's advanced Combos

    http://speedbag-advocate.com/default.aspx

    Some interesting combinations in this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4xrxsb5m-4&NR=1

    I really like that alternating I-DES he's doing at 0:27 - 0:34. I think I'll go try it now...
    Last edited by Tim; 01-04-2009, 05:08 PM.
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