Swivel size and relation to speed

[flipkick7]

or this but everything metal including the ball inside





i had the second one with the first platform i bought and then got the second one with a more expensive speed bag

[Speedbag]

Which swivel is "BETTER" is really a person choice that you can only make after you have used both a lot. I know many baggers that love both types. The top U-bolt swivel design is a fast efficient swivel. It has it's own problems but they can be defeated pretty easily.

Personally, I prefer any ballhook over the U-bolt but I can't say that makes it better, it is just the best swivel for ME. Others may disagree, but If I'm given a choice, I'll hit the ball hook. If no choice is given, I hit whatever's available. But all three of my permanent boards and two demo traveling boards have ball hooks.

[flipkick7]

but wich one is faster?

[Tim]

I believe i've got the top one... never used it. It's *HUGE*

I'll post up a pic comparing the two.

All things considered I believe you want LESS MASS (less inertia) and MINIMUM LENGTH (less rebound arc) for speed. This applies to both the SWIVEL and the BAG itself.

Granted, the actual moving part of either swivel is only a small portion of the overall mass, but take a look below... there's significant inertia to be overcome with the one on the left.

Having said that, take my word with a grain of salt, because I haven't actually used that big swivel! Ball Hook is good enough for me.

[Speedbag]

but wich one is faster?

Again, my friend, that is personal opinion. Speed can depend on a lot of things and it is hard to say which is faster because I know people who can hit fast than me on any swivel, and they may choose a different one than I do. Personally, I have never blamed my own punching speed - or lack of it - on the swivel. Every bag and swivel will give YOU several speed options, and there is a point when more speed is pointless, for at some point you will lose control anyhow. I have seen very few people go FULL speed for very long without crashing. I also think Tim's observations are right on. The shorter the swivel / rebound arc, the faster any particular bag CAN be,....IF you can control it.

For control and speed, I still chose the metal ball hook.

[roberthelpus]

Hmm. If you are talking about the back and forth direction the mass looks to be pretty close to me with the "u-bolt swivel having less surfac area invloved in friction. You'd have to weigh the u shaped piece and compare it to the weight of the ball hook, eye bolt piece and the ball itself to really know.

If you are talking about including the rotation about the vertical axis as well, then the u-bolt style starts to involve more of it's parts and thus more mass (weight) You'd still have to weigh them to be sure.

Actually, the rebound arc looks to be longer for the ball swivel. Measuring from the centerline of the bottom of the u-bolt to the centerline of the pin that attaches the u-bolt Vs. measuring from the centerline of the bottom part of the hook to the center of the ball which is where the rotation is based from.

Does this make sense to y'all. If not I will try to draw a diagram.

Meanwhile, I think using what feels and works best for you from experience is the way to go. I'm using the U-bolt style and am happy with it. I know that it's not the swivel that makes me as slow as I am, but am happy as long as I am making personal progress with my big ole 7"X10" bag Sometimes you guys are sounding worse than musicians as far as being gear-heads

[riqal]

I have the plastic and the old everlast metal ball hook swivel. The plastic is fine and moves well. The metal one is louder and moves faster than the plastic. THE METAL BALL HOOK SWIVEL IS FAST!!! You don't need any more speed than the metal ball hook affords. Like speed speedbag said, you reach a point where too much speed is pointless. Anyway you can't get much faster than the metal ball hook, unless you can find a motorized swivel.

[Tim]

Hmm. If you are talking about the back and forth direction the mass looks to be pretty close to me with the "u-bolt swivel having less surfac area invloved in friction. You'd have to weigh the u shaped piece and compare it to the weight of the ball hook, eye bolt piece and the ball itself to really know.

As luck would have it, I've got several ball hooks, some disassembled. The ball hook (ball, set screw, eye hook and s hook) seems to have a .25 oz advantage over the u-bolt. So they are pretty close, honestly I thought the u-bolt was a lot heavier, but the scale doesn't lie - they're awfully close.

As far as friction, I use chassis grease on my metal ball hooks. Don't know if it helps speed, but it definitely makes them quieter! The u-bolt has roller beariings (I guess) and moves very freely, so I believe it's got an advantage in that respect.

If you are talking about including the rotation about the vertical axis as well, then the u-bolt style starts to involve more of it's parts and thus more mass (weight) You'd still have to weigh them to be sure.

I couldn't weigh this part of the u-bolt... as I wasn't sure I could disassemble the rest of the u-bolt swivel. Certainly the part that rotates has some amount of mass to it, and might affect punching from different sides of the bag (for example the Side Double Punch (SDP) as defined in the Speed Bag Bible would cause rotation of the swivel.)

Actually, the rebound arc looks to be longer for the ball swivel. Measuring from the centerline of the bottom of the u-bolt to the centerline of the pin that attaches the u-bolt Vs. measuring from the centerline of the bottom part of the hook to the center of the ball which is where the rotation is based from.

I guess I'm talking about the arc that the bag needs to traverse to rebound against the board. A bag hangs about .5 inch lower with the u-bolt than the ball hook (This is an estimation, I couldn't measure accurately - it definitely hangs lower though.) Therefore the fat part of the bag that hits the rebound board is .5 inch lower, which means it has extra distance to traverse before the rebound, which makes for a "slower" bag. In my mind it's not any different than using a bag with a really long loop or a long bananna shaped bag (as opposed to a tear drop shape).

Meanwhile, I think using what feels and works best for you from experience is the way to go.

Agreed.

I'm using the U-bolt style and am happy with it. I know that it's not the swivel that makes me as slow as I am, but am happy as long as I am making personal progress with my big ole 7"X10" bag Sometimes you guys are sounding worse than musicians as far as being gear-heads

I should probably *actually try the u-bolt* before I bad mouth it as being slow I plan on adding a 3rd platform to my setup to help accommodate equipment evaluations, I'll hang it and give it a try.

[roberthelpus]

Good job on checking the weight. So the differences are pretty small and it's up to the individual to decide whether it matters to them or not. For me I'll work with what I have, probably for a good long while.