slow learner

[life]

Hello everyone , I been working the speed bag for about 5 months now and all I can do is the basic rhythm and some front double punch. I feel board and frustrated sometimes and its hard to keep doing the same thing over and over but I really want to get good at some of the other combos. whats a good amont of time to spend on the bag per day per week?

[swfl]

Hello life and welcome. I hit every day for somewhere between 20 and 40 minutes. Keep watching videos and also video yourself. It will click! Isolate what your working on and post questions for things that are confusing. Great helpers here. Post a video and you will get some helpful advice

[Biff]

Hi life, welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place. Don't get discouraged. With some help from the forum and some more time under the board, you'll be amazed at what you will be able to accomplish in a short time.

First, what type of equipment are you using....type of platform, swivel, and bag? These "may" have some effect on your progress. Also, if you could post a picture or two of your setup, that would be helpful as well.

The most beneficial purchase you can make is to get a copy of Alan Kahn's (speedbag) book, The Speed Bag Bible and the DVDs. You can get an autographed copy signed by Alan, by going to this thread.

The book is the best way for learning the different techniques and combinations, will become the roadmap for your speedbagging journey.

As you'll see, take your time as you progress. Learn to control the bag, so it does not control you. By that, I mean to concentrate on punching slowly and accurately. Once you control the bag, your speed will come in time. Patience and practice are key.

To answer you question, if you can find 30-60 min per day, that would be ideal. But remember, you want this to be fun too. Follow the exercises in the book, ask questions here, post some videos if you can, and you'll be amazed at your progress. As Alan always says, "You CAN do this."

Good luck, and let us know how you're doing.

[rehamco1]

Hi I hit the bag from 15 to 30 minutes a day. When I first started it was very difficult.....BUT.....I got a LOT of help from well just everybody....I posted a video...and I got help....as ALAN told me so I will tell you YOU CAN DO IT it is not a race...and it is FUN bag on

[ebozyn]

Break it Down

Watch tons of bag videos of baggers doing combos and moves that inspire you. Videos of people doing things on the bag that you think look super cool. Things you believe you will never be able to do yourself.

Download these videos, play them in slow motion over and over. Break each move down into small bits. Write down everything. And practice the combos and moves without the bag "airbaggin" get them ingrained into your muscle memory. Then slowly take them to the bag. The transition from air to bag isn't easy, but you will know you have the movements down through airbaggin you just have to get the timing down. When starting from scratch and trying to learn the movements and the timing all together, on the bag it can be a bit overwhelming. I try to break everything down to it's simplest form, then bring them together. I feel this works best for somethings.

I used to watch my favorite speed bag videos in slow motion for hours at a time. What i would do is pick out a combo in the video i wanted to learn, say this combo occurred between 1:20 and 1:24 in the video. I would keep going over those 4 seconds of video in slow motion taking notes. Then try the fist and or elbow movements in the air right in front of the TV or monitor. Then maybe the next move would be from a different video. I would then take my notes and muscle memory to the bag. Sometimes, if i were lucky i'd stumble on to a variation of these combos that looked cool enough to keep.

You may already have a cool bag video collection. The bonus is cool bag vids are fun to watch no matter what, might as well break them down.

Keep on Baggin'

[life]

man thanks for all the advise, I have three bags and 2 home made platforms, one bag is a everlast 6x9 I like the bonce that one has but I am on my second one already the seams keep splitting open its not a leather bag ,the other 2 are TITLE BLACK® Pro Speed Bag 6x9 and a red title 5 x8 TITLE Classic Speed Bag. I made one platform from gluing 2 1/2 thick ply together and then a piece of 1/4 inch white smooth material over it and the other is 1 3/4 inch butcher block top. the swivles one I got for sports good store here in Lancaster and the other I got from tittle. 4 bags aTITLE Boxing Gyro Balanced Speed Bags its either a 6x9 or a 7x10 all I know is a heavy bag

and a slow and you need a lot of punch to get it 2 bounce

[SpeedBagAtaraxis]

I agree with everyone you CAN do it, but just make sure you're having fun! Alan Kahns Speed Bag Bible will help you tremendously. Also, post some videos so we can check out your skills! Posting videos and staying connected with the speed bag community is a great way to stay motivated. It will harbor much better advice because everyone will be able to see exactly what you're doing. Especially Alan, he'll write you a book about ways to improve!

Welcome to the speed bag family!

[Speedbag]

I agree with everyone you CAN do it, but just make sure you're having fun! Alan Kahns Speed Bag Bible will help you tremendously. Also, post some videos so we can check out your skills! Posting videos and staying connected with the speed bag community is a great way to stay motivated. It will harbor much better advice because everyone will be able to see exactly what you're doing. Especially Alan, he'll write you a book about ways to improve!

Welcome to the speed bag family!

I heard that .....by the way, SBA, I'm always looking for new "authors", hint, hint.

Hello everyone , I been working the speed bag for about 5 months now and all I can do is the basic rhythm and some front double punch. I feel board and frustrated sometimes and its hard to keep doing the same thing over and over but I really want to get good at some of the other combos. whats a good amont of time to spend on the bag per day per week?

Hi Life. Want some miller? (joke)

Being bored and frustrated maybe the result of same combinations over and over, that's true. But I would venture the problem, and the learning point here if not the "amount of Time" you practice, but rather how you are practicing within that time. Learning how to practice the speed bag, especially for beginners is very important. Many folks just keep doing what they know how to do, try to do it faster, and then they fall into a fitness workout or something to get pumped and tired. The speed bag can easily become an overwhelming mass of controlled Chaos with many visions of fancy video combinations running through your head, most of which will be a bit beyond your comprehension at this point of your speed bag skill. I can spend a great deal of time watching SpeedbagAtaraxix video's, or G-Town's insane fist rolling video's or Speedy TommyT's amazing elbow work in slow motion and get a lot of learning points of "how they did that", but I don't think that is the best way for a beginner to use their video time. Sure they are entertaining and a great motivator, but for someone who has absolutely no idea what they are really doing, or has anywhere near the bag control to attempt it, it's a learning waste of time and may only frustrate you trying it under the board. That day will come, but it's not today. If you are training mostly alone under the board, without a more advanced partner to watch and help then I would suggest you try to focus on using your practice time in a more positive way than trying to mimic more advanced speed bag skills seen on video. Stick with the basic. Video it from a decent angle and post it on YT. Actually that was one of the original reasons for this forum, to offer tutorial help via video.

First of all, you can have several goals for a speed bag session, and you can build the time of that session around one or several of your goals. For beginners I suggest you start with a simple, slow progression of what you can do successfully with control. Say it's the basic rhythm and Front Double Punching. OK, that allows you to do a few variations using what you know. Do basic rhythm with first one
hand x8-10 times, then switch hands on the eighth or tenth punch. Do that a few times, then lower the number to x5 punches, then switch. On that fifth punch, let that fist be the lead fist of Front Double Punch (FDP), repeat a few time, Then progress down to where you are doing Basic Rhythm with x2 single punches with one (same) fist, then the FDP. Be sure and let each fist be the lead or second fist of the FDP.
Then work to continuous FDPing with 3 rebounds inbetween (FDP ' ' ' FDP). Since you can do 1 single fist OK, and 2 continuous fists OK, (FDP), you might consider advancing this to a Front Fist Roll (F-ROL). Do not try to just roll the fists over each other continuously at first, for most people may hit OK with 3-4 fists, but they have no control to get out of it. Tell yourself how many fists will hit. A single FDP is already 2 fists, so add one more fist, make it three. FDP + 1 fist. L-R_L. Let that last "L" come back to the bag and keep circle punching if you can. This 3 punch order will naturally repeat itself, so you will always be doing L-R_R... and then and the other fist to make it a 4 punch Roll ..L-R_L-R and let the Right fist keep circling. Making it a 4 punch Roll will naturally change the lead. It will be more difficult to start and stop with opposite fists, but it is a needed control point!
Keep adding a fist until you can "purposefully" do a 5, then 6, then 7 punch Roll. At this point perhaps you can start rolling as long as you want and purposefully get in then out of the roll with control. Now you can try to vary the speed of your rolling. Go a bit faster then normal then slow it down. To me this a far more useful and focused way to learn Front Fist Rolling then just "rolling your fists in the air" and walking into a none moving bag.

That whole sequence could take up 10-15 minutes. Any skill or new technique can be learned this way, particularly if you know how the techniques are created, Say for Outward Elbow Strikes, how the Outward Single can become a double and then a triple. Each step can be practiced on it's own, slowly with focus on control, not speed or power.
Of course, it helps to know how the speed bag techniques, and then combinations are created, and that is why I created "The Speed bag Bible" to try to give understanding to that and a simple-to-complex system for learning it. For instance did you know that after "ANY" single technique you can go to at least 12 others, and sometimes 18? At the point you learn just ONE new technique, you already have at least 12 new ways you can use it. So if you ask, what can I do next" I would ask, what do you want to do next, for you have 12 options. (Of course you may not have the skill to do 8 or 10 of them yet so you can go to any of the others you do know how to do...).

In your case, you might have to ask yourself at this point "What do you want to learn how to do next?". You do have a choice. Since you can do Basic Rhythm and FDP, I have given you a short exercise to progress to Front Fist Rolling. (I am assuming here that you know the difference between Front Circling Punching and Front Straight Punch, which is really different fist positions of hitting the bag.)
So, you want to learn Elbow Striking, all which contact the front of the bag, you can also chose which elbow strikes you want to learn first. You might say ALL, and I would say fine, but you will have to target each with it's own practice exercises which helps isolate each new movement to learn.

Or maybe you want to start hitting from behind the bag, and passing a fist "through the bag" continuously. There are exercises to learn how to do that and try to make it easier if it's problematic. Some people can just stick their fist straight out, then bring it back
(Front Circle Punch ' ' Reverse Single Punch ' ' ....) with no problem. Others have to work at it, for their hand(s) feel lost behind the bag. I would not know specifically what help to offer unless I could see and hear how you were doing it. That goes for any other new technique you are trying to learn.

So I would end this by saying: Put some planning into structuring your workout time for hitting with (1) what is fun and you can control (builds confidence). then (2) focus the next 15-20 minutes on a new skill you either want to learn or need to get more control of. This may take two or three workouts, but that's OK. You don't have to hone each technique to perfection before you move one, but you should at least understand what you are trying to do. Then, if you want a fitness or power work out, do stage (3). Now your going to go as fast or hard as you want (actually, only as fast or hard as you can control) but you punch to exhaustion if you want. Don't do a stage 3 workout out before stage 2, or you will be too tired and be practicing bad form. Some people can pull this off but I don't advise it for most folks. I like to attempt learning new things when I'm fresher and not exhausted.

Sometimes it's helpful to actually have a couple of stage 2 workouts, such as "focus on learning the downward double elbow strike" for 10-15 minutes, then "focus on learning the Reverse Double Punch" for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes mixing techniques or sides of the bag in learning sessions helps to offer a bit of variety. And - you never know when that Eureka moment will come and suddenly, two or three new things just suddenly make sense and you can do them flawlessly with control. It amazes me how often that happens to people. Something that is so hard become so easy, in a flash and the bag does exactly what it is supposed to.

AND every new time that happens, ...you have at least 12 other techniques you can go to and most of the time...18.

ahh! Yes it's exhausting but nothing beats standing under that board and knowing that now YOU are in control of it all.
(some of time, that is).



Back in the high "life" again... great song for slow jam punchdrumming... DEE.

[life]

Thanks again ,wow that's a lot of info there a lot of great advice I which I had a video of what you were telling how to start, its a little hard for me to understand right now, I will have to figure out how to post a video. can I use the web cam on my laptop?

[life]

http://youtu.be/wMY1ibs2-i0



here my first video, hope it works it was the first thing I did in the morning on a empty stomach

that's about all I can do.

[Eric]

nice start

Welcome and nice start. You have the rhythm. Check out Alans book and start learning a few other punches. Then string them together. Keep those elbows up higher and it will be easier to get back on the next punch.
Bag away Brother !!!

[Biff]

Hey life, looking good. Nice 1-2-3 triplet rhythm. You might want to stand a little closer to the bag. It looked like you were reaching a bit. Overall, pretty good.

[life]

I will have to get the book, thanks everyone.
Is there a webpage with all the different punches ? I thought i ran across it once.

[life]

just did 30 min non stop basic rhythm.

[rehamco1]

http://youtu.be/wMY1ibs2-i0



here my first video, hope it works it was the first thing I did in the morning on a empty stomach

that's about all I can do.

Hi Life Looks like your speed bag journey has started. Nice forward roll. bag on.