Hummm.....4 Count?

[Zaza]

Has anyone seen this one before?

[Speedbag]

Has anyone seen this one before?

Not I. Title Boxing has on recently started franchising boxing fitness centers like this one. The ones I've seen (online) did not have speed bags included. Last year I offered to do a speed bag seminar in the new club that opened in Plano Tx , but they did not have speed bags as yet.

This guy is obviously pretty skilled on the bag, and I love his trapping work and uppercuts. His "four count" might be ill conceived, and that is another reason why I married a math teacher. I realized very early in my life that there are basically three kinds of people, those who can do math and those that can't.

I know which one I am.

[justo(c)]

Guess he is adding the strike and the 3 rebounds together. Whatever works for him.

[PunchDrummer]

Interesting video - he's fun to watch.
If he hit the bag six times in a row, his "count" would be "6".

I still hear the triplet count - and IMHO you have to be able to distinguish between the rhythm and the number of repetitions to Drum to it.

I'm not sure what count a novice might find easier to listen to help them "get it". I kinda' got it when I listened to it his way, but I still hear the rhythm underneath as well. Maybe that's the gift from Alan Kahn. Best gift ever.

Hey - something cool in the works on this end. You're going to like it if I can eventually pull it off cleanly. A few bars learned each day - slowly but steadily burning it into the brain.

[Speedbag]

Guess he is adding the strike and the 3 rebounds together. Whatever works for him.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say (IMO) no matter how you analze it, or he does, this is wrong. The PUNCH contact (fist on bag) is not audibly heard. Hold the bag in one hand so it will not swing and hit it with an easy punch. You will barely hear a sound. Your fist hitting the leather surface of the bag is NOT heard in the punching sequence, for a moment later the bag hits the board. IMO the ears and brain will never decifer "the fist contact" on the leather as separate from the bag hitting the board, and he is clearly counting the bag hitting the board, because in his "four count" he is counting the unpunched swinging rebounds.

If you try to just count the rebounds, Then he is wrong again. Fist hits bag, bag hits board away (1), bag hits front of board (2) bag hits board away (3), fists hits bag, bag hits board away (4). He started this sequence with a fist strike, and it was the 1st rebound on the back of the board. and he ends it with the 4th rebound on the back of the board. In that case, WHERE does his next "one" count start, for the next rebound will be on the front of the board. Also notice, rebounds "1, 3 and 4" were all on the back (away) part of the board.

oops. the next rebound will be front of the board. So, does the his 4th rebound also count as the 1st in the next sequence. ? How does he count the two swinging rebounds that hit the board before the next punch with the opposite hand? If he is saying that repetitive punching from the front (he is only hitting from the front) happens on an even count (number of rebounds), then how will he explain it when the next punch comes from the opposite side of the bag?

Over the years I've seen and heard many people discuss "the speed bag count" and "feeling the rhythm". 99% of them recognize a "triplet 3" count and triplet beat when repetitively hitting from the same side as he does in this video. A few try to use an even number, counting punches or whatever,but if you want to really frustrate a beginner, try teaching them how to punch continuously from the front (like a boxer) using an even number of audible rebounds, as he is saying 4. regardless of how he calculates it, it will not work for teaching. Actually, in all due respect he does not explain much about how he did any of his other combinations, other than "just go with it and feel the rhythm". Groovy but not very specific. Unfortunately I like specifics and it pains me to see it presently and explained, IMO, - wrong.

Years ago I did ponder all of this for quite a while, when trying to separate individual techniques from combinations, and develop the best way to teach somehow how to hit how I (or we of Dr. Schroeders teaching), did non-stop from all around the bag. At that time, and now, I found it best to simply define the guiding sound for repetitive punching as "the rebound" which is the bag hitting the board. But what I found was more important for learning to hit from all around the bag was "the direction of the next strike", which can come from four different areas (sides) around the bag, front, back, left side, right side. When I focused on THAT as the key, I figured out out my own system, which I called the rules of rhythm, which seems to work for most folks, and allows me to understand what anybody is doing on a speed bag.

[justo(c)]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say (IMO) no matter how you analze it, or he does, this is wrong. The PUNCH contact (fist on bag) is not audibly heard. Hold the bag in one hand so it will not swing and hit it with an easy punch. You will barely hear a sound. Your fist hitting the leather surface of the bag is NOT heard in the punching sequence, for a moment later the bag hits the board. IMO the ears and brain will never decifer "the fist contact" on the leather as separate from the bag hitting the board, and he is clearly counting the bag hitting the board, because in his "four count" he is counting the unpunched swinging rebounds.

If you try to just count the rebounds, Then he is wrong again. Fist hits bag, bag hits board away (1), bag hits front of board (2) bag hits board away (3), fists hits bag, bag hits board away (4). He started this sequence with a fist strike, and it was the 1st rebound on the back of the board. and he ends it with the 4th rebound on the back of the board. In that case, WHERE does his next "one" count start, for the next rebound will be on the front of the board. Also notice, rebounds "1, 3 and 4" were all on the back (away) part of the board.

oops. the next rebound will be front of the board. So, does the his 4th rebound also count as the 1st in the next sequence. ? How does he count the two swinging rebounds that hit the board before the next punch with the opposite hand? If he is saying that repetitive punching from the front (he is only hitting from the front) happens on an even count (number of rebounds), then how will he explain it when the next punch comes from the opposite side of the bag?

Over the years I've seen and heard many people discuss "the speed bag count" and "feeling the rhythm". 99% of them recognize a "triplet 3" count and triplet beat when repetitively hitting from the same side as he does in this video. A few try to use an even number, counting punches or whatever,but if you want to really frustrate a beginner, try teaching them how to punch continuously from the front (like a boxer) using an even number of audible rebounds, as he is saying 4. regardless of how he calculates it, it will not work for teaching. Actually, in all due respect he does not explain much about how he did any of his other combinations, other than "just go with it and feel the rhythm". Groovy but not very specific. Unfortunately I like specifics and it pains me to see it presently and explained, IMO, - wrong.

Years ago I did ponder all of this for quite a while, when trying to separate individual techniques from combinations, and develop the best way to teach somehow how to hit how I (or we of Dr. Schroeders teaching), did non-stop from all around the bag. At that time, and now, I found it best to simply define the guiding sound for repetitive punching as "the rebound" which is the bag hitting the board. But what I found was more important for learning to hit from all around the bag was "the direction of the next strike", which can come from four different areas (sides) around the bag, front, back, left side, right side. When I focused on THAT as the key, I figured out out my own system, which I called the rules of rhythm, which seems to work for most folks, and allows me to understand what anybody is doing on a speed bag.

I appreciate the descriptive response, Alan, and I couldn't agree more. What I mean't was that from his perspective, he sees 4, for whatever reason, not that this is by any means a 'correct' way of teaching or keeping rhythm.

As an eager novice I wouldn't even consider disputing your word.

[Speedbag]

I appreciate the descriptive response, Alan, and I couldn't agree more. What I mean't was that from his perspective, he sees 4, for whatever reason, not that this is by any means a 'correct' way of teaching or keeping rhythm.

As an eager novice I wouldn't even consider disputing your word.

No worries. I was just pontificating on how he could come up with the "four count". It's his right of course, he's just one rebound wrong, again, IMO.

My wife loved that "last part" about disputing my word. She hasn't laughed like that since the end of April when I told her I was going to New Jersey (Real Gymm) to teach the speed bag to three Japanese comedians called "Mori sanchu".

(They taught me to count to three in Japanese).

(May 15, 2013)

[paranday]

My wife loved that "last part" about disputing my word. She hasn't laughed like that since the end of April when I told her I was going to New Jersey (Real Gymm) to teach the speed bag to three Japanese comedians called "Mori sanchu".

(They taught me to count to three in Japanese).

(May 15, 2013)

You filmed a segment for Japanese TV with 森三中 ? Do you ever wake up in the morning with the realization that it is cool to be Kahn ? Does your wife see it this way ?

Seems this comedy group Mori sanchu specializes in the absurd. Cornball stuff. No matter, the speed bag could always use a little more exposure...

[Zaza]

So... where can we see the cilp?

[PunchDrummer]

IMO the ears and brain will never decipher "the fist contact" on the leather as separate from the bag hitting the board......
I figured out out my own system, which I called the rules of rhythm, which seems to work for most folks, and allows me to understand what anybody is doing on a speed bag.

The Japanese culture sense of comedy is so funny and entertaining, probably because it is so innocently silly.

I've seen a number of videos, as I'm sure you have, where attempts are made to explain the rhythm, and most try, but just don't know how to explain it correctly (or know what they're talking about - even though they have skills). I don't think everyone understands the precepts of rhythm. Otherwise, there would be more really good Drummers and more guys like Alan I guess.

A while ago I began to ponder whether I could "beat" the beat and time shift the way I can hear, predict, and effect time-shifted strikes so the spectator hears it as I hear (feel) it. I'm able to predict a beat - hit a beat early so the beat I generate on a drum sequence doesn't sound "late" - like I'm reacting instead of leading, but I can't make that small millisecond shift. My Tascam microphone can "hear" glove on leather, but it's not the predominant beat, and my brain is never going to be able to adjust for that. That's what ear-buds and video editing software is for.

This is cool stuff. The more I play and practice, especially with the camera and the software, the more I hear, and the more intricate drumming to a song becomes. The entire process is becoming a really fun pastime.

[Speedbag]

[QUOTE=Zaza;42009]So... where can we see the cilp?[/QUOTE]

The segment was filmed for the Nippon Television Network, for one of their primetime comedy shows that features "Morisanchu" (the group of three ladies). They were doing segments for their "American Diet Tour" I guess, and they went to several locations featuring different types of fitness exercises which the ladies would all attempt.

I was contacted via T.K. Digital which is one of the production company Nippon TV uses in the US to film segments in america. They find talent and locations for various japanese television shows, as well as get clearances, licenses, and handle all local arrangements. They also provide translators, for the actual film crew and Japanese show talent do not speak English for the most part.

We ended up filming it in Real Gymm, May 16th. Again, Big Thanks to Donnie and Real Gymm for letting us take over the upstairs that night to film it. I believe this 2 minute or so segment is just a synopsis of the whole show which is probably available for viewing through their pay subscription. They shot a lot more footage than is shown here, which is par for the course in the TV world.

The speed bag part can be seen in the link below from about 82:36 - 84:45

http://video.fc2.com/content/20130602wryw7aKv/

Right after our speed bag session we went to Brooklyn to film a segment with the giant shower swing,
(which was featured in this Honda Commercial).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiZS-MiIpac

The segment of them on the swing is just after the speed bag segment, at 85:00.

This crew had 5 or 6 professional Sony HD camera's, a gaggle of the newest POV HD cameras such as GoPro, lighting, backdrops and tons of other equipment in our three van caravan.

[paranday]

That's amazing, Alan-san. Speedo bagu ! Did those ladies speak any English?

[Speedbag]

That's amazing, Alan-san. Speedo bagu ! Did those ladies speak any English?

Not a word. The shoot director for TK-Digital (Kei Sugimoto_in grey suit) did all the translation. The only request was: Do not look at him while he is translating. When I spoke to them, or them to me, we were to look at each other, not him. That is actually a bit harder than you might think, for we tend to want to look at the person speaking. When they would ask me a particularly long question, like "how to do you mix the speed bag rhythms to music and how long did that take".... their speaking it in japanese and his translating it to english could take up to 30-45 seconds - and I need to keep looking at them, not at Kei for the translation. The same for me, when I made an explanation, I needed to look at them while I spoke and during his translation.

It was all good and a really interesting experience. Glad G-Town, Juxt and Donnie got to share it with me. They got to hit a bit for them also, after the formal show filming was done.

This was just one of a number of major media, entertainment opportunities that have occured so far this year concerning the speed bag: (Letterman, Good morning America, Espn, AGT, fox news, Nippon TV, Major Product advertising agencies..) You might say that 2013 has truly been "the year of the bag" with more to come. Wait 'till the fall comes around, with the documentary film debut and Matthew rips it at razor speed. If this tells you anything, It should tell you that the major media and entertainment outlets are becoming aware of the speed bag and it's entertainment possibilities. So keep posting those videos. You never know who will contact you.

[PunchDrummer]

Those were great videos Alan!
The third thumbnail reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer found that his exact likeness was on a box of a popular brand of laundry or dishwasher soap in Japan.
So how much fun traveling can a guy have?

[Speedbag]

Those were great videos Alan!
The third thumbnail reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer found that his exact likeness was on a box of a popular brand of laundry or dishwasher soap in Japan.

So how much fun traveling can a guy have?

The excitement of "going somewhere" to do something with the speed bag is always high, however the actual experience of traveling, specifically getting through the TSA check points has long made it a irritating nightmare. I have enough metal inside various joints to ALWAYS set off the alarms, requiring further review, pat downs, feel ups and sometimes emptying of luggage.

Trust me on this, if they pat you down and their gloves indicate a need for further review (the gloves on their hands are put through and analyzer after they get done feeling you up), you will be in for one miserable experience. You have no idea how many products, fumes or dust particles or medications you come in contact with on a regular basis that can trigger a "false positive" for explosives. Seriously. To tell you the truth, I wouldn't mind never having to fly again unless they could re-install the full body scanners. They see all the metal in the joints and you pass, no problem. I don't care what else they see, I just want to get on the plane as easily as possible.

(tip: If you take heart of blood pressure medication, be sure to wash your hands very well before they pat you down, or don't take them until after you pass through screening, or their latex gloves may read "nitroglycerin", and some very large and unfriendly people will want to take you into a room, examine you, shall we say, closely, and dump out all your available luggage. Just so you know, they do not repack it for you..

oh yes they will. )

Maybe this would be a wise use of $85.00 if I travel more.