Making Progress!!

[Marlon]

Hi everyone. I'm finally making some progress on the basic 4 punches. Using & alternating the front circle punch & the front straight punch came pretty quickly, but that front double punch was very humbling.

Just like Alan shows in the Bible, my 2nd fist was blowing right past the bag, but two nights ago something FINALLY clicked and I'm now able to practice differnt counts of circle punches in between double punches, as well as R - L, L - R, R - L, L - R.

I'm also working on getting in and out of the front fist rolls with fcp's and varrying the number of punches in the fist rolls. (Of course just as I make a breakthrough, just as I 'get it', I can't hold my arms up anymore and I have to stop for a while....lol)

I'm still REALLY struggling with 'linking' or passing my hands through the bag. (All of the reverse stuff is giving me problems to be honest) but I will keep at it. I couldn't double punch this time last week, so there is hope!

I'm wearing out my bible DVD, and it's a HUGE help (especially on a big screen TV over a laptop screen) but any tips/tricks for getting over the "reverse stuff hump" would be appreciated.

OK, my shoulders stopped twitching, so I'm gonna get back to bagging. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks to everyone (Especially Alan) for all the advice/tips and also for being so positive. I have yet to read a negative post here. Very cool.

[ebozyn]

When i work on stuff like strikes from behind the bag, or from the side, i break it down to one fist at a time for example start with the right, Just strike after strike, slowly, three rebounds in between strikes. Maybe 2 to 5 minutes, until that feels more comfortable, then switch to the left fist, 2 to 5 minutes or so...

Then try putting them together with for example three lefts, then three rights, do that for 10 to 15 minutes or so. (or you can mix things up even more 2 lefts, 1 right, 1 left, 3 rights. so there is no combo of strikes that you can't do)

Then two rights and two lefts. working you way down to full alternating strikes 1 and 1.

If it still feels a bit awkward, i'll start all over from the beginning.

that's how i work things out for my own bag control. It may work for you to.

Keep on Baggin'

Hi everyone. I'm finally making some progress on the basic 4 punches. Using & alternating the front circle punch & the front straight punch came pretty quickly, but that front double punch was very humbling.

Just like Alan shows in the Bible, my 2nd fist was blowing right past the bag, but two nights ago something FINALLY clicked and I'm now able to practice differnt counts of circle punches in between double punches, as well as R - L, L - R, R - L, L - R.

I'm also working on getting in and out of the front fist rolls with fcp's and varrying the number of punches in the fist rolls. (Of course just as I make a breakthrough, just as I 'get it', I can't hold my arms up anymore and I have to stop for a while....lol)

I'm still REALLY struggling with 'linking' or passing my hands through the bag. (All of the reverse stuff is giving me problems to be honest) but I will keep at it. I couldn't double punch this time last week, so there is hope!

I'm wearing out my bible DVD, and it's a HUGE help (especially on a big screen TV over a laptop screen) but any tips/tricks for getting over the "reverse stuff hump" would be appreciated.

OK, my shoulders stopped twitching, so I'm gonna get back to bagging. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks to everyone (Especially Alan) for all the advice/tips and also for being so positive. I have yet to read a negative post here. Very cool.

[Salvatore Tortellini]

All the great baggers on this site are so helpful and sharing with their advice. It really amazes me how many good folks there are taking the time to pass on encouragement and hard learned skills. It means a lot to folks like me who are just plodding along trying to make things happen.

[Speedbag]

Hi everyone. I'm finally making some progress on the basic 4 punches. Using & alternating the front circle punch & the front straight punch came pretty quickly, but that front double punch was very humbling.

Just like Alan shows in the Bible, my 2nd fist was blowing right past the bag, but two nights ago something FINALLY clicked and I'm now able to practice different counts of circle punches in between double punches, as well as R - L, L - R, R - L, L - R.

I'm also working on getting in and out of the front fist rolls with fcp's and varrying the number of punches in the fist rolls. (Of course just as I make a breakthrough, just as I 'get it', I can't hold my arms up anymore and I have to stop for a while....lol)

I'm still REALLY struggling with 'linking' or passing my hands through the bag. (All of the reverse stuff is giving me problems to be honest) but I will keep at it. I couldn't double punch this time last week, so there is hope!

I'm wearing out my bible DVD, and it's a HUGE help (especially on a big screen TV over a laptop screen) but any tips/tricks for getting over the "reverse stuff hump" would be appreciated.

OK, my shoulders stopped twitching, so I'm gonna get back to bagging. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks to everyone (Especially Alan) for all the advice/tips and also for being so positive. I have yet to read a negative post here. Very cool.

Hang in there, Marlon. Reverse Punching is normally the most difficult area to learn. Here are a few tips.

When practicing the Reverse Single Punch (RSP), lean a bit to the side of the arm that is extended behind, so if you are using your right arm, lean a bit to the right. This will give the bag a bit easier clearance to the front of the board without you "leaning back" which is a natural reaction when standing directly in front of the board. It's a slight lean from the waist, not much and you can also make a small step that way. The hardest issue with this lean would be IF you try to change arms, so in this example, going from a Right Fist RSP to a Left Fist RSP. That quick change on three rebounds will require you to quickly lean to the left as you change arms.

There is also another tip for Reverse Single Punching (RSP). This is very similiar to Side Single Punching (SSP), in fact it is the very same fist motion, only hitting a different panel of the bag. Instead of "leaning to the right" when doing a Right Fist RSP, you could also just angle that arm a bit so the fist contacts just a bit of the rear-side panel. This will change the rebound angle of the RSP just enough to let it clear your face. This really serves the same purpose as the lean, but requires a bit more control of placing the fist angles of contact behind the bag. It takes a bit more control to manipulate the bag contact point behind the bag then it does to just Lean over a bit, and I find beginners or people struggling with the Reverse Single Punches will normally do better to lean to the striking side just a bit to avoid having to lean back, which often takes them back too far until you are comfortable with the bag rebounding close to your face.

Either method, (1) leaning or (2) contacting more of the rear-side panel, will also help with linking a single fist through front to back. The motion to pass a fist "through the bag" to other sides is exactly the same from any area of the bag, and it may be a bit easier when leaning to the side.

To get a handle on passing a single fist through (do this with both fists, one at a time), you need to focus on (1) the contact points on the bag (behind is harder), (2) the actual fist movement straight through bag and (3) the rhythm it makes and timing required. You already know the triplet rhythm, and passing fists through the bag happens on 2 rebounds, or "the double bounce". the big key is, it makes a different sound and the timing is a bit different than full circle punching, but ....once you "get it", it's really easy and works from all the other techniques to come. the movement will always be the same. So, lets make it easier. Forget about linking a fist through the bag multiple times, just do it ONCE, and start from the back.

Do three RSP, (RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP) and then bring it to the front, Do ONE Front Circle Punch (FCP), and then go back to the rear. Just link your fist one time, back-front-back, and continue punching from the back. Do the "lean" before you start.

RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP

I underlined the pass through, which is a full figure 8 motion. Do this say 5 times with your right fist, then do it with the left fist. This will help you practice TWO weak points at once, (1) your RSP contacting and (2) the linking move. You already know the FCP, no need to do a bunch of those. The pass thru front to back to front to back never changes so I suggest you start these from you weakest point, which is the reverse area.

Then, when this feels comfortable, add another pass through, or Two FCP.

RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP

You can add another FCP when this feels comfortable. Notice I have you ending all linking coming out behind the back to RSP. That is because you need to practice contacting that area and making that swinging motion more. when you feel comfortable with it, then you can break out of this combo on the front of the bag, to the FCP,

RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' RSP ' ' FCP ' ' ' FCP ' ' ' FCP....

But that is really a different skill, requiring the fists to change direction quickly and you really want to get the feel of the straight thru passing motion first, and coming out on different sides constantly seems to add difficulty to the whole thing. Once you get the pass through motion down good "Back to front" then front to back will be easy and then you will have enough control of circle punching from the front and back to change to either quickly. But it is harder to do that if you can't pass through very well. Hope that makes sense. It reads in text a lot longer than it is difficult, for once you "feel it" you will have it from then on, and it should happen in a few sessions. Remember, you can always "Air punch" these without the bag to get the fist movements and imagine the bag sounds and movements.

That's for Single Fist Linking, Double Fist linking is a bit more difficult. First you will have the same issues with the Reverse Double Punch (RDP) you had with the Front Double Punch (FDP), in that you may find your second fist blowing right under the bag if the spacing is not correct. The next issue is "The lean" which now will need to be back just a tad from the board. There is a trick to this that will take some time to explain but it's relevant for a beginner (...and this is why I wanted you to do all that RSP work first!).

Most beginners will try to make the contact point of their punch when the bag is almost "straight under the swivel", which is really a bit too far ( or late ) in the rebound. When you hit a bit late in the rebound it is usually no big deal when punching to the front of the bag, ...BUT - when doing this in any of the reverse punches, your natural tendency will be to LEAN IN to get the fists further behind the bag than they need to be (also over extending a bit). Not only does this add a bit more space for the fist to return to the bag, it also leans your face IN toward the coming reverse punch. Most people learn this quickly on their own, and they react by leaning back too far, thinking the bag hit them because they were too close, which they were, but they were too close because of hitting too late in the arc of the rebound.
Think about it, if the bag hits the front of the board and clears your face, then your face is clear of the bag, and if you don't change anything, just hit the reverse punch about half way between the board the straight position of the swivel, the bag will not hit your face on the next punch. You did not need your fist extended Waaaay through to the other side, because your going to hit the bag before it gets to the center position anyway.

Anyhow, once you get a good feel for the Reverse Double Punch (RDP) that may make more sense, for that is when this is really important. If your fists make bag contact in the correct part of the rebound, you should only have to lean back slightly to clear your nose on the front rebound. If you wait until the bag is almost straight under the swivel, or you hit "late", slightly past center, you may very likely get bonked in the face with the bag coming to the front.

(continued in next post..) (too long....)

[Speedbag]

Continuation from last post to Marlon...


For Reverse Fist Rolling (R-Roll) you will need to catch the bag very close off the front of the board continuously anyway, and although it is a difficult technique, most people will find the bag is actually rebounding "over their face" as they lean to do it anyway. I rarely hit myself on R-Roll, but I still get caught by a misplaced RDP now and then, and I can trace it to extending my fists too far forward, either trying to go fast or dropping my arms.

Practicing the movement of passing both fists through from Back to Front is a bit more problematic because of the timing of doing the RDP correctly, and IF you do several RDP in a Row, it's a bit harder to feel how the lead and second fist change. Continuous RDP-ing occurs JUST like Front Double Punch (FDP) with the fists continually changing positions, ie....L-R ' ' ' R-L ' ' ' L-R, and this is a bit harder to do from behind the bag. So work on that as you can and remember to lean back a bit.

But you don't need to have that skill cold to practice linking RDP ' ' FDP. Here is a little exercise that might help. We'll just go back to the RSP and let it carry the load.

Remember, you already know how to do a FDP. Now you've been practicing and learning the RSP, so that technique and motion is better (hope). So, do this.. leading with your dominant hand, let's say the RIGHT.

Do Three RIGHT RSP, then a R-L, Reverse Double Punch, bring both fists to the front to do ONE L-R Front Double Punch, the pass both fists behind the bag, and come back with the Right Fist again RSP. It looks like this...

Right Fist - RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RDP (R-L) ' ' FDP (L-R) ' ' RSP Right fist ' ' ' ....

I did it this way because most people find it easier to have their dominant hand lead a Reverse Double Punch (RDP) and they find it easier to have their dominant hand to be the last (2nd fist) of the Front Double Punch (FDP). It might seem odd to pass both fists from the FDP to the back and just come out with the right fist in this combination, but it is normal for the last fist to pass through normally returns to the bag anyway, and you are practicing ONE PASS THROUGH RDP ' ' FDP. This also allows you to do this exercise and keep the same fist order to learn the movement.

Obviously the next extension of that is to add the RDP onto the end of that and come out of it with the Left fist, which will rotate the lead of the combination, but that makes it just a bit harder.

Right Fist - RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RSP ' ' ' RDP (R-L) ' ' FDP (L-R) ' ' RDP (R-L) ' ' ' Left RSP....

notice how the lead now changed to the left fist, for the second fist of the RDP returns to hit the bag. As you get control of that you can also do another RDP to change fist orders behind the bag again if you want, but that also requires a good command of that technique. Again, you can always "Air punch" these without the bag to get the fist movements and imagine the bag sounds and movements.

If RDP ' ' ' RDP gives you trouble, you can also go to "5" rebounds (RDP ' ' ' ' ' RDP) to give yourself more time to get your hands in position. it just has to be an odd number when hitting again from the same side. And remember your fist spacing is important so the second fist doesn't pass to quickly under the bag instead of hitting it.

Yeah, this was a bit long, but hopefully it will help you get past this sticking point.

[fedora]

Marlon, I just started doing this again in Dec of 2012 after about a 28 year layoff. I only knew a few basic punches before I joined this forum. When I first started trying some of the linking and reverse punches I thought I'd never get them. But after a while your body and brain finally come together and you wonder why you couldn't do it to begin with. It took me forever (well several weeks, it seemed like forever) to finally do the side double punches. It just takes persistence and a good set up. A lousy bag, vibrating platform and a bad swivel will really slow you down. You have access to all the knowledge you'll need to progress here on the forum.

fedora

[Marlon]

@Alan - Wow, that's a lot to process but the scary thing is that what read like assembly instructions from IKEA a week ago is actually starting to make sense! Thanks for the tips. You are a great ambassador for the 'sport' of speedbagging!

I'm starting with the 3 - 1 - 3 you suggested (RSP, RSP, RSP - FCP - RSP, RSP, RSP) and it's starting to click but right now the issue is my control of the RSP more than comprehending the sequence. (Especially once I slowed down the DVD & saw that the RSP makes a double bounce & not a triple.)

Being able to finally transition from one technique to another has made bagging a lot more fun and I can practice longer at a stretch. Before I was hitting "until failure" but now I actually have a game plan in mind as I am hitting the bag. Just having a plan instead of winging it feels like a huge step forward.

@Fedora - I felt the same way - I couldn't double-punch to save my life, but now I'm able to transition in & out of fist rolls and double punches, so when I'm stumped on the reverse stuff I don't let it get me down. (I haven;t even started the side & elbow techniques yet, but I'll get there.

Right now I'm working with an I-box, (it came with an Everlast 4444 Swivel) and a Balazs lazer 7x10 bag. There is a small amount of vibration in the board & eventually I plan to upgrade to a ballhook swivel and a hardwood platform & smaller bag - But for now I figure that the slower swivel & small vibration are my friends as I learn.

I really appreciate the knowledge shared by others (the DVD & this forum are like having private lessons) but my favorite thing about the forum is how helpful/positive everyone here is.

Read the responses to videos on You Tube & you can see negative, smart-alec replys.....Not here.

[Speedbag]

@Alan - Wow, that's a lot to process but the scary thing is that what read like assembly instructions from IKEA a week ago is actually starting to make sense! Thanks for the tips. You are a great ambassador for the 'sport' of speedbagging!

I'm starting with the 3 - 1 - 3 you suggested (RSP, RSP, RSP - FCP - RSP, RSP, RSP) and it's starting to click but right now the issue is my control of the RSP more than comprehending the sequence. (Especially once I slowed down the DVD & saw that the RSP makes a double bounce & not a triple.)

Correct: Reverse Single Punch to Front Double Punch ( RSP ' ' FCP). requires TWO rebounds because the next punch comes from the "other side" than the last.

Repetive RSP ( RSP ' ' ' RSP) is three rebounds because the next punch comes from the same side.