Helicoptering

[goju]

Hey guys ive just finaly made my new platform, but im having a few problems with it so far. Unfortunately i have no pics or vids to upload yet for you guys to check it out. For the life of me i just cant keep a good rhythm going without the damn bag helicoptering. The strange thing is, i started off on one of those platforms you get on the side of a multigym and a plastic ball, and had no probs with it at all.. and the platform i was using was bouncing all over the show, but i could still keep a good rhythm. Now with this new platform, its going all pear shaped for some reason.. The new platform is wall mounted and about 3 inch thick with a basic chain swivel, and also there is still quite a bit of vibration.. do you think the vibration is causing the ball to helicopter ? i have tried both bags and the smaller peanut bag is worse. I know its a shot in the dark without pics or vids but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

ill try and get at least some pics uploaded asap.. many thanks.

[goju]

oh i forgot to mention.. the wall that the platform is mounted on is not brick.. more like very thick plasterboard. but i did screw 2 sheets of plywood to the wall. So i doubt i will be able to place a sandbag on top which i have seen folk suggest. Though i have a small bucket of sand on top but not sure how much more i can put on top..

Thanks again.

[Biff]

Helicoptering is USUALLY caused by mis-hits, but there could be other reasons. I'm not sure if vibration would cause it, although it would affect bag speed.

Is your platform level? If I understand your post, you said that you now hit a chain link swivel instead of a plastic ball swivel. How long have you been hitting with the chain link swivel?

Maybe it's a combination of things. A video would help out, if you could post one. I'm sure there will be other answers from folks far more experienced than me. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

[spinsmashpop]

Hi Goju!
I used to helicopter all the time... so much that I called it that and thought I was the originator of the phrase! haha......
It was so prominent and frustrating in my first couple months of bagging that I made it part of my practice. I would punch clockwise with my right hand, (so the punch starts around 6-7 o clock), let the bag go round 2 orbits, then punch left counter-clockwise for two backward orbits. It is challenging and fun when you get the speed up. And it looks kind of impressive. It definitely takes quick hand eye coordination. I will try to remember to post a clip.
Anyhow... I think it is a matter of slowing down and finding the bag's sweet spot. I started on a couple 7x10 bags and (Gyro and Durahide). I think a lot of us are talking so much about the smaller sizes, it easily encourages newer baggers to get right into those. The sweet spot is bigger (obviously) on a bigger bag and you have a little more to play with as you work on technique.
So slow down a bit and throw up a bigger bag. See is this helps....
Oh yeah, any weight on top of the platform will help control vibrations and increase rebounds. I got a 50 lb bag of sand and it was too much and went back to my 30 lb bag of dog food. For some reason the vibration was increased with the sand bag.... I will never know why....
BAG ON!

[goju]

hey biff thanks for the reply.. and yes a vid would help alot with my question.. ill see if i can do one via my mobile phone.. well i could never get on with the plastic ball swivel..and i even put that plastic everlast one on today to see if that was the problem, but it was even worse. Ive been using the chain link swivel for a week or two. And the platform is level..

[goju]

well im also using this bag smashpop

http://www.boxfituk.com/medicine-balls-etc-/speed-balls-speed-bags/lonsdale-authentic-speed-ball/prod_294.html

its not so bad with the lonsdale bag but it still ends up doing the windmill lol .. ill try and get a vid up for you guys, if anyone can help you chaps can maybe it could be a case of trying to run before i can walk.

[Kyle]

well im also using this bag smashpop

http://www.boxfituk.com/medicine-balls-etc-/speed-balls-speed-bags/lonsdale-authentic-speed-ball/prod_294.html

its not so bad with the lonsdale bag but it still ends up doing the windmill lol .. ill try and get a vid up for you guys, if anyone can help you chaps can maybe it could be a case of trying to run before i can walk.

thats probably it...this helicoptering is very common in beginning baggers slow down and really think about your hits and it will stop as u get better....dont rush things the speed will come control is the most important part!
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[Speedbag]

Hey Gojo,

Spinsmashpop, Biff and Kyle pretty much covered it, for Helicoptering is almost always due to mis-hits, however IF you suspect the equipment, which can create it's own helicopter or "off-rebound" problem, I would start by first, changing bags. Try several different sizes and shapes. Hit all real easy for a few punches, trying what you know to do, then try all hitting about mid to higher power and watch the rebounds. Your looking to see if one bag is worse than the others, or if they all helicopter a bit. If only ONE does it, the bag could be off centered or out of round. If they all do it, it's probably YOU. But just to be sure, go to step two.

step two. Change the swivel. Sometimes a swivel will interfer with the rebound action. I've seen this on chain links and ballhook. Some of them just suck and don't work well. If some of the bags work fine on different swivels, than the problem is probably in your swing, contact or timing.

Listen to your contacts. are you a hitting a bit late in the rebound, or hitting upward on the bag? That can put an unwanted bend in the links of raise the ballhook up to float a second, and perhaps get crooked.

It could be any of these, but most likely your swing is suspect. Throw up a video (no music please, just punching so we can hear fist contact and rebounds clearly) and punch about a minute or a bit longer so we can see how your doing.

[Tim]

thats probably it...this helicoptering is very common in beginning baggers slow down and really think about your hits and it will stop as u get better....dont rush things the speed will come control is the most important part!

X 2

Make an effort to hit the bag in the same exact spot every time... that should help. Speed bag requires a surprising amount of precision.

[goju]

Thank you all so much for your help.. ill try and get a vid done today, and hopefully that will give you guys a better insite to see what im doing.

[atgatt]

Looks like all the possible issues have already been covered by the sage forum members. All I could add is I have one particular bag that caused me to mishit noticably more than the others and I found that the bag was really not round around the belly of the bag. The bag should not have passed quality control.

That's not to say that I'm so perfect that I still don't get mishits once in a while. When I do get a helicopter that I can't get back into control by hitting at an angle, I just stop the bag with my hand real quick and let it hang and get hitting again.