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  • Phantom FSP Combo

    Will somebody please perform this on video and post it here?

    @ArcSwivel
    #ArcSwivel sigpic

  • #2
    I remember watching Alan write that I think. A demo would be cool to see

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    • #3
      I get what's going on there somewhat although can't do phantoms with comfort and flow, and certainly with just one rebound between combos. Those that can make it look like poetry in motion.

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      • #4
        That looks like one of the things the guys from Seattle were doing. I could be wrong.. There was a lot of really cool elbow stuff going on that weekend.

        Caz, what day did Alan write that? It'll still be on there next year!
        Last edited by BagBoy; 07-29-2019, 10:43 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rdshackleford View Post
          Will somebody please perform this on video and post it here?


          Very simple: Here is a video from SpeedBag IV, when this really first appeared and was all the rage. The "P" under the FSP signifies "phantom" (under the other arm)

          Here is a great video demo of this.... (Who knew in 2013 this would be so relevant)



          Look at this video, Joe Saba at 7:25 - to 8:37: Particularly at 7:42 to 8:35, where he is doing it slowly, exactly as written.

          The secret is realizing we usually get into this with the "Phantom" Front Straight Punch (FSP). Notice at 7:42 he raises up his LEFT Arm to the outward Elbow position (fist under ear) and his Right Fist hits a FSP under this arm. This is a "phantom" FSP because from most angles you will not see it because his body or his arm would block out his Right arm making the motion. This is how most people begin the sequence. Follow the sequence from 7:42 to 7:47 (Pause quick and see frames) you will notice his Right Fist his Phantom FSP, then Left (outward) Elbow, Left Fist and then Right Fist. (Key: After the right fist his in "phantom" pretty much let it stay there because you will need to bring it in again to complete the Elbow-Fist-Fist motion - Which is The
          "Outward -Triple Elbow Strikes" (O-TES) So, the right fist started this as a phantom FSP, then follows on the end of the O-TES.

          After the right fist hits as the last fist of the O-TES, keep that right arm up an bring the right fist to position by left ear. this is ready position for O-TES from other side, R-R \ L , But as elbow goes up to this position, The LEFT fist now shoots under the right arm and creates the Left "phantom" FSP. And the sequence repeats itself. This is only two techniques...a FSP and the OTES. that's it.


          FSP ' O-TES ' FSP ' O-TES ....repeat. When I wrote that on the wood, I started the combo from the O-TES. or you can start it like I did here... with the Phantom FSP. It doesn't matter, its the same combo, but most people I've seen get into the combo like Joe Saba is doing here, starting with the FSP.

          The Secret to pulling this off, and hardest part for me was realizing that the middle fist of the Outward-Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES) [ remember, this is an Elbow-Fist / Fist Technique ]
          Can not go far from the bag after it connects. because in one rebound it will have to make "phantom" FSP.

          So, when the Left elbow, hits, then left fist,...that left fist must hold position because after the Right fist completes the technique E-F / F, the left must snake out for the phantom.

          That's the unique part of this combo. forget the elbow for a second, that fist sequence becomes R-FSP ' L-FSP (L=phantom punch). That is Two Front Straight Punches following each other.

          Right FSP ' Left FSP. This is a sequence you NEVER see in the basic rhythm. two front straight punches do not follow each other due to direction of movement and body position. It's very awkward, BUT...when you do this under the arm, it seem a lot more natural.

          Hope that helps.





          Speed Bag

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BagBoy View Post
            That looks like one of the things the guys from Seattle were doing. I could be wrong.. There was a lot of really cool elbow stuff going on that weekend.

            Caz, what day did Alan write that? It'll still be on there next year!
            I wrote that Saturday afternoon. Just to tweek people's curiosity, actually. And test people's ability to actually start looking at what people are doing and pick out the individual techniques. How will you remember some of these unreal combinations these guys art throwing at mock speed..!?? For me, I break them down to their smallest parts as I see them, and I write them down. I write a lot after watching video's from the gatherings. I make them practice combinations for ME.

            Just as I wrote them from 1989 to 1995 for you folks in the book. And that's the truth. I figured, "Learn to read the music and learn to play the instrument." I know it has worked for a few anyway.
            Last edited by Speedbag; 07-30-2019, 02:04 AM.
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

            THE 10th Year Reunion!

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            The Art of the Bag

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            • #7
              I've got that down pretty good. But I keep losing my FSP to an FCP. It's currently so much easier to do it that way. I'll work on fixing that!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BagBoy View Post
                I've got that down pretty good. But I keep losing my FSP to an FCP. It's currently so much easier to do it that way. I'll work on fixing that!

                I can't imagine that but your set up or swing might vary a bit more than mine/most. But if it works that way for you, do it! I'd love to see that....

                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                THE 10th Year Reunion!

                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Speedbag View Post


                  I can't imagine that but your set up or swing might vary a bit more than mine/most. But if it works that way for you, do it! I'd love to see that....
                  Ahh, I spoke too soon Alan. Keeping with one rebound at the turnaround is getting me as I currently need two rebounds in order to be set to go back the other way. I hope that makes sense. The FSP seems to be coming along though.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BagBoy View Post

                    Ahh, I spoke too soon Alan. Keeping with one rebound at the turnaround is getting me as I currently need two rebounds in order to be set to go back the other way. I hope that makes sense. The FSP seems to be coming along though.
                    If I'm reading between your lines correctly, You're last fist of the O-TES is hitting in FCP position? or your lead fist to start the combo????

                    yeah, that will screw up your arm/hand position. For me, I find those both have to hit as a FSP on front of fist.

                    Sure you can do this off a Front Fist Roll (F-Roll), and in that combo you will need to shoot your arm across the body to get your elbow "UP" for the O-TES when the other fist connects as a FCP in the Fist Roll. That happens "VERY" fast, but it is possible. In that combo, you could write it.

                    F-Roll.....(R) FCP ' OTES ' F-Roll...with the last fist (R) again striking as the last fist of the O-TES in a FCP position to continue the Rolling. It's complicated.

                    Personally, (just me..) I rarely use the FCP fist position as the last fist of the O-TES. Sure I link it thru a lot to RSP, but it's pretty easy to link a FSP to RSP. to me, the FSP is a much more "pure" punch in that technique than the FCP, but a lot of "The best" do a FCP at the end. Color me confused. (or KAHNfused, for spelling)





                    Speed Bag

                    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                    The Quest Continues...
                    Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                    THE 10th Year Reunion!

                    sigpic

                    The Art of the Bag

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Speedbag View Post

                      If I'm reading between your lines correctly, You're last fist of the O-TES is hitting in FCP position? or your lead fist to start the combo????

                      yeah, that will screw up your arm/hand position. For me, I find those both have to hit as a FSP on front of fist.

                      Sure you can do this off a Front Fist Roll (F-Roll), and in that combo you will need to shoot your arm across the body to get your elbow "UP" for the O-TES when the other fist connects as a FCP in the Fist Roll. That happens "VERY" fast, but it is possible. In that combo, you could write it.

                      F-Roll.....(R) FCP ' OTES ' F-Roll...with the last fist (R) again striking as the last fist of the O-TES in a FCP position to continue the Rolling. It's complicated.

                      Personally, (just me..) I rarely use the FCP fist position as the last fist of the O-TES. Sure I link it thru a lot to RSP, but it's pretty easy to link a FSP to RSP. to me, the FSP is a much more "pure" punch in that technique than the FCP, but a lot of "The best" do a FCP at the end. Color me confused. (or KAHNfused, for spelling)




                      Alan, sorry for the late response.

                      After once again looking at the picture posted above (the combination you wrote on the Saturday) I see that it is indeed two rebounds before and after the R ''(FSP)'' thus starting the repeat of the combination. If I am reading that wrong please let me know.

                      This is going to take some time..
                      Last edited by BagBoy; 08-06-2019, 02:42 AM.

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                      • #12
                        I think there is a scorch mark in the wood that looks like a " ' ". This whole sequence (two techniques) all happens with ONE rebound in between. All parts hit the front of the bag and require an "odd" number (1 or 3) rebounds. 1 in this combo.
                        Speed Bag

                        Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                        *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                        The Quest Continues...
                        Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                        THE 10th Year Reunion!

                        sigpic

                        The Art of the Bag

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you for the clarification. That combo set is addicting to work on. Think I've invented a few new words while doing so.. I'm hoping that "Eureka" moment happens.

                          Going as slow as I can while keeping a rhythmic motion but getting that FSP back in place is after the (O-TES) with only one rebound is a real challenge. I'll get it. It'll happen

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BagBoy View Post
                            Thank you for the clarification. That combo set is addicting to work on. Think I've invented a few new words while doing so.. I'm hoping that "Eureka" moment happens.

                            Going as slow as I can while keeping a rhythmic motion but getting that FSP back in place is after the (O-TES) with only one rebound is a real challenge. I'll get it. It'll happen
                            SECRET of doing "hard part" [ O-TES ' FSP "phantom" ] is knowing that the "first fist" of the O-TES has to "HOLD IT'S POSITION very close to the bag after contact.... because it must do the "phantom FSP" right after the last (second fist connects after only "one rebound". You must not let that fist drop down, and it will if you also drop that elbow...SO....keep the "outward elbow" UP in that position so it does not drag the connect fist with it.( example, Left Elbow ' Left fist...) keep them up and the left fist close to bag to bag to follow that last Right FSP of the O-TES.

                            You can break this down to see it another way. If the Left Elbow and Left fist connect alone that would be the "Outward-Double Elbow Strike" (O-DES). Double because the other fist does not follow after one rebound, it will be three. Do it that way, just for fun. O-DES ' ' ' FSP and then phantom the fist of the O-DES back under that arm.

                            example. Do a LEFT (O-DES). "Left Outward Elbow, Left fist (hits in FCP position). Keep that Left fist up very close to bag. Let bag rebound "THREE" times, hit Right fist FSP, pull that Right fist straight to left ear (outward elbow set up..) AS your Right fist is moving toward your Left ear, shoot your LEFT fist under the right arm to do a FSP under the right arm. That left FSP is the "Phantom" punch under the right arm, And it happens after the Right FSP and ONE rebound only. Air punch this as you read without the bag, SLOWLY .....and notice how your fists and arms will be "crossing" each other very much like an "X" motion in front of your neck. Right fist is moving away from center of body (to left ear) and the Left fist is moving toward center of chest as the phantom FSP punch.

                            As soon as the LEFT fist connects the bag, the right elbow should be "UP" and ready to start the next O-TES. In fact, I normally see that elbow directly in front of my nose-chin. You can also cheat this a bit by turning the body slightly to get the elbow In this position, ....which is also pretty close to where your left fist would be in the home-ready position. ...that area right in front of face and front bag area.

                            Anyway, give this try and wait for that Eureka moment. and then.....http://www.eurekaheights.com/beer/
                            Last edited by Speedbag; 08-07-2019, 02:23 AM.
                            Speed Bag

                            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                            The Quest Continues...
                            Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                            THE 10th Year Reunion!

                            sigpic

                            The Art of the Bag

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