2nd week in and struggling

[Lee Chapman]

The Punch Professor is a good friend and crazy good advocate of all bags training. Here is the video with the bicycle chain reference at 5:00min

I also like his reference of "one punch, two hands" for the Front Double Punch (11:00 min)

I have always loved his "Dingle Ball" video's

Thanks. I will take a look at these.

[Lee Chapman]

Hi all, I am a re-newbie....started hitting the bag in 1957 and lost access to one and just recently rekindled my interest. I got bit big time, this time. bought some bags and built a platform and have put in about an hour a day getting back what little I had back in 57. I have been watching you tube seeing some great speed bagging. After one month into it I came across this forum so decided to register. I am not real computer savvy so it took me about an hour to find out how to execute a post. I hope this qualifies as a first post.I would hate to think I will be washed out because I can't figure out how to enter a post. I purchased a dvd of the sbb but it won't play on either of my players so I returned it and ordered a hard copy of it from amazon. Wish I had come here first. Anyway I am progressing rapidly and am devouring all things speed bag. Did some speed bag art on a sweatshirt I have and have an idea for a swivel that I imagined. I wanted to say hello and thank you to Alan,Tim,Mathew and Dee for all the videos that I have watched since I re-started the first of Feb 2017. Adios for now..Ric

Thanks and welcome.

[Lee Chapman]

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Lee,

I would agree whole heartedly with what Biff states. Because of your position so far away from the bag, you are making contact (good contact in front) at almost full extension of your arm. This would be more like a power punch to a heavy bag, hitting hard with full weight shift at the point of full extension. This is also a secret to power punch training with a speed bag, usually a the big bags...... stand back away from the bag to increase power. It is very similar to golf, in that your use the longer club with a larger swing arc to hit the ball harder and further. Your punching from the front like a full long driver. Move in closer to decrease the distance of your swing arc, swinging from the elbow, reducing the distance that fists move (repetitively) and thereby hitting with less for but more speed. Moving in closer will also solve another problem with linking, or passing the fist(s) thru the b

First, with your longer full extension swing, Your fist contact on the Front Straight Punch (FSP) appears to be sideways, with the thumb up higher then the little finger. AT least with your Right fist. (See pic #1 below) This will making linking difficult for a couple of reasons. First, at full extension you don't really have much room to extend "thru" the bag and as you reach to make it, your hand will drift downward - under the bag. This will create problem number 2 swinging Upward on the Reverse Single Punch (RSP) which you can see in Pic #2. This will either hit too low under the belly of the bag, and drive the bag upward into the swivel, or you will miss-hit noticeably.
IMO, the single biggest cause of this is the angle of your palm, which is a key to linking. To pass one or both fists thru the bag it is much easier if you palm if facing downward to the floor. On you FSP contact, thumb upwards, your palm is facing your face, not the floor. When you move in closer, the contact point of the Front Circle Punch (FCP) will be on the little finger SIDE of the fist, with your palm facing down. IF you hit the belly of the bag, (not over it) and let your fist go straight after the contact, then the bag will actually be on the board during the rebound, effectively passing OVER YOUR HAND which is moving only an inch or two forward. When the bag comes off the board from that rebound.....your hand has already cleared the rebound arc and is now behind the bag. I have seen these hundreds of times in super slow motion video ... on high speed shutter of 1/1000 of a second, and did this on virtually every size bag...and it was always the same. When bag height is correct, and fist contact is correct, the bag is compressing on board during the rebound when the fist passes straight thru, so it is already behind the bag, just beyond the arc of the rebound, when the bag starts moving downward.

I explain that in this video at about 2:20 (this video is explain a more detailed double fist pass combination, but somehow I went back to explaining how it works.... it just happens)

I would suggest a way to fix your linking issue. The single biggest problem for "most" people in learning this is the contact of the Reverse Single Punch (RSP), [ and both fists in the Reverse Double Punch (RDP)]. On these techniques you can't really see the contact point and you're fishing for it hoping to find that sweet spot. To find that spot faster, Start doing a lot of Reverse Single Punching. Take you position closer to the bag and extend your arm out to almost full extension so you fist is behind the bag, then start punching from behind for repetitive Reverse Single Punching (RSP) x3 or 4 etc. This will help you find that sweet contact point on the back of the bag, then, after a given number (4 or 5 RSP) then pass the fist Palm down to the front for Front Circle Punch (FCP), and the pass it back to the reverse position. This is really doing your normal linking of "front to back" in reverse, "back to front" but IMO this helps learn it faster, for you already have good contact on the front of the bag, so Reverse this combination allows you to practice your weakest point more than your strongest. You do have good time on your front fist contacts, that is not a problem. This will help develop your contact and timing from behind the bag. Eventually you will need this control from 360 around the bag once your start side punching. (*hint: side punching is no more than re-positioned reverse punching )

I've added a picture of this combination but for my explanation above, start with picture #4 of the sequence. Do 4-5-6, 4-5-6....several times then pass to #1.

In reviewing your Front Fist Rolling (F-Roll), Your video shows what happens when you stand so far away from the bag to make fist rolling kind of difficult. For efficient F-Roll you want to be up close and lean in, reducing the rebound distance of the bag. Create a "V" with your fists by having your fists under your chin so your elbows are our a bit beyond your fists. This will create a safer surface for a continuous clean contact and rebound. I also suggest you hit a few Front Circle Punches (3-5) to establish bag movement and contact, then start your rolling. It is a bit harder to start F-Rolling from a dead still hanging bag, because there is no speed established and after that first punch you should "lean in" to reduce the distance the bag rebounds. Hint: this will automatically make the Roll faster by reducing bag movement distance. I made a few screen shots of your F-Roll in Pic #3 below. Notice your contact is above the bag belly, actually "pawing" downward a bit. You will fix that pretty quick.


Sorry this was a bit long, but hopefully it will help advance your bag skills.
I look forward to your next videos!! keep punching.

Hi Alex

Thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply.

I went through your video over a couple of mornings this week, and have already implemented some of your suggestions, from looking at that and also self critique of my video. I am getting closer, and leaning into the f roll. I have also been working on keeping the shoulder imobilised and working from the elbow down. I can feel when I don't get a good contact with my fcp, but didn't know how to adjust it.

I think the hardest part of this training is that without instant correction, it's so easy to program in faults, as you can be making the same mistake hundreds of times per training session.

Yesterday and today I have been working on getting the hand or hands through the bag to practice linking, and working on my fcp to an rsp single rebound. Then working on rsp with alternating hands. Yesterday I was getting about 3 good contact, but this morning getting a lot more. I am also working on fdp to rep on either a single or triple rebound. I am currently sat at Heathrow waiting on a flight to San Clementy to meet my JKD instructor, who advised I needed this type of training to compliment what I already do. So no speedbagging for a week whilst on vacation.

I'll put another vid up in a week or so.

Thanks to all so far for your help.

Cheers
L

[rdshackleford]

...I have always loved his "Dingle Ball" video's...

Never heard of a Dingle Ball. Looks very cool. About how long would you say the strap is? Looks like it would need a very tall and wide platform.

-Rusty

[Dutchman]

Ahyup, very old school

[rdshackleford]

I am interested in the physics. This dingle ball is a lot different from an old school rope swivel. And the devil is in the details. The dingle ball has a long swing and requires a strong punch. None of this open handed fist crap. Also, its gonna hit you in the face if you don't watch out.

The old school rope swivel has its own charm and devilish details. IMO, both are very interesting.

-Rusty

[Allentown]

The dingle ball is similar to the slip ball. It teaches you to slip punches. It just that the dingle ball will bounce back at you faster than the slip ball.

[Dutchman]

And slam you in the face something fierce if you don't get out of the way in time.......

[timcable]

I know nothing about speedbagging yet - but have stuff on order. Looks like you are reaching to far in. Hitting the bag past the swivel. Hope that makes sense. Let the bag return to you more before you hit it.