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  • Speedbag
    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

    • Feb 2006
    • 7109

    Bags comparison

    Here are a few bags for comparision with the older, larger Wilson H1274.

    I took measurements (inches) of each just for fun:

    L = length from top of bag loop to air valve on bottom
    W= Distance around the bag belly

    (these are approximate as several of the bags will not inflate to full capacity)

    Two 8x5 bags (Balazs Lazer and Title Classic) next to the giant 15 inch wilson bag. (almost half as small!)

    Also the Balazs Lazer 8x5 and Title Classic 8x5 next to each other with a ruler behind.

    I have always been fascinated by bag bottoms and how they can differ. The three largest bags on the left all appear to have a similar bottom, with a center patch for the valve. The two on the right are totally different. I wonder if the shape of the bottom has any effect on bag performance, and why one of these three designs would be chosen over the other.

    Attached Files
    Last edited by Speedbag; 04-01-2013, 09:44 PM.
    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
    The Quest Continues...
    Hoping for another Gathering...


    sigpic

    The Art of the Bag
  • MsDeville
    Senior Member

    • Oct 2009
    • 1301

    #2
    Fascinated with Bag Bottoms… hmmm

    I know there's gotta be a punchline in there somewhere…
    sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
    I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

    Comment

    • Speedbag
      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

      • Feb 2006
      • 7109

      #3
      Originally posted by MsDeville View Post
      Fascinated with Bag Bottoms… hmmm

      I know there's gotta be a punchline in there somewhere

      Maybe......Bottoms up?
      Speed Bag

      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
      The Quest Continues...
      Hoping for another Gathering...


      sigpic

      The Art of the Bag

      Comment

      • bbally
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 121

        #4
        Both of the bags with the ruler were recalled. They should be sent to the Colorado Speedbag testing center immediate for proper testing. They will be returned when testing is complete in a couple years. Keeping you safe is what we are about.


        Not touching the bag bottom!
        sgt
        USMC 79-85


        Thanks to all who continue to serve... and to those that answered the call in the past!

        Comment

        • fedora
          Speed Bag Guru
          • Dec 2012
          • 471

          #5
          Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
          I wonder if the shape of the bottom has any effect on bag performance,
          I don't even want to touch this one.LOL

          fedora

          Comment

          • Speedbag
            Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

            • Feb 2006
            • 7109

            #6
            Originally posted by fedora View Post
            I don't even want to touch this one.LOL

            fedora
            I typed that with a straight face, too.
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Hoping for another Gathering...


            sigpic

            The Art of the Bag

            Comment

            • ChuckM
              Speed Bag Trainee
              • Mar 2013
              • 14

              #7
              There seems to be a trend for speed bags to get smaller and smaller over time, I don't see bags like that large Wilson for sale new anywhere. Is this true, are speed bags shrinking? Is the style of hitting speed bags a lot different now compared to 50 or 100 years ago? I'd be interested in your insights on these questions!
              Thanks, Chuck M.

              Comment

              • Speedbag
                Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                • Feb 2006
                • 7109

                #8
                Originally posted by ChuckM View Post
                There seems to be a trend for speed bags to get smaller and smaller over time, I don't see bags like that large Wilson for sale new anywhere. Is this true, are speed bags shrinking?.
                That is a good question and it may depend on where you look for equipment. Larger bags are prevalent on more foreign sites. USA equipment companies do not seem to carry the bigger sizes.

                But it is possible that the evolution of speed bag training (and equipment) through boxing history may be an indication. See most pictures from the 1930 - 1950's and you will notice a lot more "outdoor" boxing camps, with large spaces and more space available for equipment. Punching the speed bag was more repetitive punching from the front of larger bags, although Ali was often seen on smaller bags. As boxing training sites move indoors the room available for equipment got smaller. Boards seem to get smaller, as did the bags they could realistically attach to them. Then (IMO) as boxing activities move more into the fitness craze and home environments, the equipment, (high sales potential) had to be able to fit those environments. Few homes could hang a 200 pound heavy duty speed bag rack on a bedroom or garage wall, and since only one or two people would realistically use it, much lighter materials could be used, leading to smaller bags for those environments. I think many fitness equipment trends, wisely or not, follow the money. Equipment companies will always make what sells. If big, heavy bulky speed bag racks don't sell (lots of boxing gyms already have SB equipment...) then the companies drop those lines. Of course you will always have a few dedicated companies like Balazs Boxing and Title Boxing offering higher end professional level equipment for the more dedicated boxing industry, but the big sales come from the more fitness oriented markets.


                Originally posted by ChuckM View Post
                Is the style of hitting speed bags a lot different now compared to 50 or 100 years ago? I'd be interested in your insights on these questions!
                Thanks, Chuck M.
                Again, I think you have to consider the location and purpose of those punching the bag. In that regard, I do NOT think training styles have changed.

                1: Amateur or professional boxing: They have always focused on what is relevant and legal in the ring. Regardless of era, shown in early boxing training footage to todays competitors, they pretty much have the bag up high, punch mainly from the front and use a "rounds" system of training in their daily circuit. This is what the general public mainly saw for speed bag punching and is probably still the prevailing belief about speed bagging in general. Some of the hard core boxing trainers really hate any other references to speed bag training methods. Their way is THE way and the method below is useless for boxers, but perhaps not martial artists who do use a lot of elbow strikes and more eclectic strikes moves.

                2. Non-boxing focused, speed bag punching.. ie "novelty bag punching", or "Fancy Bag Punching" (1904), resurrected lately as "Bible Style Punching".

                There has always been a "sub-culture" of non-boxing speed bag punchers who looked at the speed bag as much more than a competitive boxing training activity and took it into the entertainment arena, some of which is seen here and referenced in links below. Many of the most amazing baggers referenced below most likely performed in the vaudeville era and there is precious little video footage of them actually hitting, however I think it is safe to say the "Fancy Bag" or "Bible Style" Punching has been around for a LONG TIME, and the pages of these old books prove it. Our own Showtime Johnny Powell was keeping it alive during his days in the 1950's and '60's. But most references to speed bag on mainstream TV and movies has always been related to boxing and that more limited style of punching. Today, with the advent of Youtube I expect a lot more of this punching style to be adopted as it is much more interesting and expressive (again IMO).

                Frank Jules_1895



                William Duncan 1904



                Young Corbett_ 1916




                Belle Gordon_1913



                Harry Seeback "Scientific Bag Punching" reference



                published by Richard K. Fox publishing
                no 12, Fox athletic Library

                How to Punch the Bag 1904



                How to Punch the Bag_by young corbett with Fancy Bag Punching by W.F. Keller (3 editions 1904, 1914, 1916)

                Australian Ball punching Kid Brunnel 1941 (shades of Deano... not the under and over elbows, side punching)

                clearly illustrated in this 1903 footage:



                these are great questions and I'd be interested to hear our resident historians insights on these topics.
                Last edited by Speedbag; 04-11-2013, 11:48 AM.
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Hoping for another Gathering...


                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

                Comment

                • Zaza
                  Speed Bag Guru
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 2000

                  #9
                  Thanks Alan... just the nudge I needed to write the history section of the film! :-)
                  Art of the Bag - A Speed Bag Story
                  http://www.artofthebag.com

                  Comment

                  • Speedbag
                    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                    • Feb 2006
                    • 7109

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ventanakaz
                    great history there alan, makes me wish i had a computer to see some of this stuff. thanks for posting this.
                    keep in mind, 99% of that was just my own interpretation of the topic and opinion. There were probably other forces at play that I don't know about. For instance: Why do many of the known baggers from Australia (Kid Brunnel, Deano..) focus so much on that amazing side punching style, with the over and under elbows punches, when It was rarely seen (actually, never seen by me) in the US? Perhaps the early baggers of Vaudeville days did that, but it appeared to be lost in any american boxing or film references, and I interpret that to be a unique style that was lost to a few American speed bag generations. Virtually everything "fancy" that I saw or focused on was more front to back. Yes we did Side Double Punches, but never the combinations using so many hook punches, back hands and phantom punches under the elbow. Those are equally as fascinating as anything I saw from Doc Schroeder, who did not do those particular moves.

                    Speed Bag

                    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                    The Quest Continues...
                    Hoping for another Gathering...


                    sigpic

                    The Art of the Bag

                    Comment

                    • Marlon
                      Member
                      • Apr 2013
                      • 94

                      #11
                      Great links! Thanks for posting those. I just ordered your Bible DVD along with some wraps from Balasz so I'm looking forward to see what else I can pick from your brain.

                      I just got into bagging & already I can see how/why you guys are addicted, but that won't happen to me..... I'm just gonna bag at night and on weekends....I can quit anytime I want to!

                      Comment

                      • MsDeville
                        Senior Member

                        • Oct 2009
                        • 1301

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Marlon View Post
                        Great links! Thanks for posting those. I just ordered your Bible DVD along with some wraps from Balasz so I'm looking forward to see what else I can pick from your brain.

                        I just got into bagging & already I can see how/why you guys are addicted, but that won't happen to me..... I'm just gonna bag at night and on weekends....I can quit anytime I want to!

                        Yeah… right…

                        KLEAN Treatment Center is a Drug and Alcohol addiction treatment facility that specializes in personalized treatment and finding the underlying issues behind the addiction. In addition KLEAN also has a radio show called KLEAN Radio and reps can be regularly seen in the media.


                        sigpic Contact me anytime for information about Deville Swivels Email: DevilleSwivels@gmail.com
                        I'm also on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DevilleSwivels | www.facebook.com/SpeedBagAddicts

                        Comment

                        • Marlon
                          Member
                          • Apr 2013
                          • 94

                          #13
                          Lol! I do NOT have a problem!! (Yet)

                          Comment

                          • Speedbag
                            Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                            • Feb 2006
                            • 7109

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Marlon View Post
                            Lol! I do NOT have a problem!! (Yet)
                            That's how it always starts out.

                            But there are a lot worse addictions you can have than speed baggin', so don't fear becoming a punchaholic, or bagaholic. It helps the economy and really boosts the employment of speed bags.
                            Speed Bag

                            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                            The Quest Continues...
                            Hoping for another Gathering...


                            sigpic

                            The Art of the Bag

                            Comment

                            • ChuckM
                              Speed Bag Trainee
                              • Mar 2013
                              • 14

                              #15
                              That was a great response, I really appreciate you taking the time to put all of that information together; it looks like I signed up for the right forum!
                              That brings something else up: I understand you offer your book for sale to forum members at a discount. After reading what you wrote I would be very interested in your book.
                              When I tried to contact you about this the other day there was a message that the email link was disabled by an administrator. How can I place an order for your book at this time?
                              Thanks again, Chuck

                              Comment

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