1891 Spalding catalogue

[paranday]

Here's an early platform 6' in diameter. Spalding claims to have invented the concept we would call an old school speed bag, not sure about that. Also an early double end bag.

Free Download:

http://archive.org/details/agspaldingbrosgy00spal

[Speedbag]

Here's an early platform 6' in diameter. Spalding claims to have invented the concept we would call an old school speed bag, not sure about that. Also an early double end bag.

Free Download:
http://archive.org/details/agspaldingbrosgy00spal

Very interesting claim. Surely this falls outside the definition of "speed" bag, or certainly the modern concept of it. Even the double end bag would have bounced back faster than this one would. Of course, perhaps this long rope attachment and its use were meant for ONE rebound use, not three.

In fact, the more I think about that, maybe the 3 rebound concept was born long after this, as the ropes got shorter and shorter.

hmmmmm

[paranday]

This was a slower bag. I actually hesitated to use the word "speed" bag above, but we don't call them striking bags so much these days, so speed bag it was. It was late when I wrote that !

It was only a few years later when Spalding and others were advertising bags that were light and good for speed work, and swivels came on the scene. Swivel to me implies short rebound arc, the rope gets more twisted up the shorter you go and you then need a swivel. But bagging had to start somewhere. Spalding's claim is for an "inflated striking bag with platform". Todays speed bags are (usually) smaller, faster, lighter, but match the description otherwise.

Spalding calls it the McCaffrey striking bag, may I assume this refers to Dominick McCaffrey?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominick_McCaffrey

As boxing instructor, he could have developed or endorsed this style of equipment. The time frame seems about right.

As late as 1901 Robert Fitzsimmons was still using jumbo sized equipment in contrast to other teachers from that era. In his book

Physical Culture and Self Defense

he writes,

"Do you want to become an expert bag puncher? Yes? Well, there is nothing easier. There is not an art nor athletic exercise that can be acquired so readily. You have to impress but one thing upon your mind---that is, there can be absolutely no limit to the amount of practice you must take."

"The merest novice can, by constant work, become a bag puncher of no mean ability in a surprisingly short space of time."

"That is encouraging, is it not?"

I think Bob is trying to hook new converts on the bag with his sneaky words. Later he says "Learn your straight blows, right from the shoulder, and the full swings first. Then gradually, as you become fast and clever, learn the fancy movements."

What are these fancy movements? The book is maddening because Fitz refuses to go into details.

Was this a single rebound bag only? Bob writes, "At first you must be careful not to get hit by the ball as it rebounds from the platform after you strike it. This is only a preliminary danger, however. You will soon become too light on your feet and expert at dodging with your head to be in danger from this source."

Seems to me if you dodge the bag it's going to rebound off the back of the platform -- that's more than one rebound. I'm furthermore not sure how there could be fancy moves with only a single rebound.

We can probably lay this matter to rest. Fitzsimmons specifies that the platform be 2 feet above the head, and the bottom of the bag a little above shoulder level. Bob writes, "As to the different movements and blows, it would take up too much space to go into details. And, again, it is hardly necessary. Get the bag and you will soon teach yourself how to do the punching."

With the measurements above, anyone could construct this style of old school bag and platform and see where it leads.

[paranday]

Better yet, let's bring this thread back to life, it is not correctly posted in the history section,

1877, birth of the speed bag?

Mike Donovan claims to have invented the striking bag and platform in 1877, the same idea Spalding claims. This pdf is worth a download if you don't already have it,

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_40/outXXXX01/outXXXX01i.pdf

as you will see a photo of a front fist roll on an old school set-up. In the text Donovan delivers a knock out punch to the single rebound theory, he mentions the triple rhythm amongst others.

Finally, here an Australian punching a bag with a long rebound arc.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3674085

Sherrin are a current maker of Australian footballs.

[Dutchman]

Nice work Paranday, I've seen most of what you unearthed before, but I have to confess that I lost a lot of it when my other computer melted down. Bravo!

[Speedbag]

...As late as 1901 Robert Fitzsimmons was still using jumbo sized equipment in contrast to other teachers from that era. In his book

Physical Culture and Self Defense

he writes,

"Do you want to become an expert bag puncher? Yes? Well, there is nothing easier. There is not an art nor athletic exercise that can be acquired so readily. You have to impress but one thing upon your mind---that is, there can be absolutely no limit to the amount of practice you must take."

"The merest novice can, by constant work, become a bag puncher of no mean ability in a surprisingly short space of time."

"That is encouraging, is it not?"

I think Bob is trying to hook new converts on the bag with his sneaky words. Later he says "Learn your straight blows, right from the shoulder, and the full swings first. Then gradually, as you become fast and clever, learn the fancy movements."

What are these fancy movements? The book is maddening because Fitz refuses to go into details.

Yes, in 1901 Fitz gave instructions on bag punching, but "fancy movements" did not go unnoticed, and were clearly in progress and unearthed only a few years later.

1904, Bag Punching for Health, Strength and symmetrical development, by William annal Duncan (some of these appear very fancy by any day's standards...)

1904 book "How to punch the Bag" by Young Corbett. On page 76 there is a article on "fancy bagging" written by gus keller, from the book

1913 Book "Boxing and How to Train, by Sam C. Austin, featuring Belle Gordon with some pretty fancy bagging of her own

Little was seen in print about "fancy bagging" after that, but some of those skills were resurrected in a 1973 book "Boxing Skills for fun and fitness" by Charles R. Schroeder. Chapter 3, hitting the striking bag has various illustrations of 32 different combinations.

With due respect to the early roots of fancy bagging by Mr. Duncan, Gus Keller, Belle Gordon and a host of others, The modern day resurrection of "fancy bagging" (better explained as hitting from all around the bag with fists and elbows), can be traced to Dr. Schroeder. Like those before him, he taught many his knowledge and secrets personally and a few of his disciples are still active. So I've been told....

But there is a documentary film coming out about all of this in the near future.

can't wait to see it

[paranday]

That documentary film may very well light a fire. Hope speed bag interest zooms. Zazaoooooooom.

[Speedbag]

Better yet, let's bring this thread back to life, it is not correctly posted in the history section,

1877, birth of the speed bag?

and here is The Birth of the Beat, by Sandy Nelson.

Sorry, but I really did learn how to play drums to this song, and a few of his others.

Maybe we need a punch drumming tribute to this....

[Zaza]

My research shows Professor Mike Donovan (1877)as the creator of the 'speed bag' as we know it today....that's his story, and I'm sticking to it!