Tough move!

[BaggerBob]

My skills are slowly improving and speed is picking up, but this has to be the toughest technique I'm working on. It looks like a must learn, to move forward. I'm working things in stages and in separate drills.
Have you had trouble learning it?

[Speedbag Seaweed Man]

Yep, for sure. At first I found S-RDP and R-SDP quite daunting. But they are well worth the effort. I found that particular combo more difficult than (FDP)'(SSP)'(RSP) which is the same thing, just starting with a double punch on the front of the bag instead of a front circle punch or front straight punch. But it was this one you are doing that made me realize that the fist can pass straight through the bag and back and there would still be time to fit the side punch in between. I find it helps to bring the fist back for the reverse punch directly below and inline with the centre of the swivel. This way your fist connects the bag as it hangs plumb down from the swivel and is in the perfect spot to be hit on one bounce. Sometimes letting the elbow drop a wee bit helps get the reverse punch to come straight back through the bag and feel like it will be out of the way of the bag during the side single punch. The rest is just down to timing, which you can pick up by ear. The accented bag sounds of the fist connecting with the bag will be spread evenly apart for each punch, so if you are a bit early or late the bag might windmill otherwise you will hear the timing could be off a bit. (The same timing between the front punch and the side punch and the reverse punch.)
S-RDP is one of my favorites I love them. They are a nice way to come out of side to side split fists, side triple elbows or even just S-RDP back to back.
Do you have a copy of The Speed Bag Bible? The exercises in there build up steadily and it really is an epic tool for learning the bag.

[BaggerBob]

Yep, for sure. At first I found S-RDP and R-SDP quite daunting. But they are well worth the effort. I found that particular combo more difficult than (FDP)'(SSP)'(RSP) which is the same thing, just starting with a double punch on the front of the bag instead of a front circle punch or front straight punch. But it was this one you are doing that made me realize that the fist can pass straight through the bag and back and there would still be time to fit the side punch in between. I find it helps to bring the fist back for the reverse punch directly below and inline with the centre of the swivel. This way your fist connects the bag as it hangs plumb down from the swivel and is in the perfect spot to be hit on one bounce. Sometimes letting the elbow drop a wee bit helps get the reverse punch to come straight back through the bag and feel like it will be out of the way of the bag during the side single punch. The rest is just down to timing, which you can pick up by ear. The accented bag sounds of the fist connecting with the bag will be spread evenly apart for each punch, so if you are a bit early or late the bag might windmill otherwise you will hear the timing could be off a bit. (The same timing between the front punch and the side punch and the reverse punch.)
S-RDP is one of my favorites I love them. They are a nice way to come out of side to side split fists, side triple elbows or even just S-RDP back to back.
Do you have a copy of The Speed Bag Bible? The exercises in there build up steadily and it really is an epic tool for learning the bag.

I'll read your reply a couple more times to understand it.

You're right, I should get the bible soon, but for the moment I'm watching videos for pointers.

The timing on that side punch is a mother!

By the way, I'm liking the SwivelTek LTX Ball Hook Swivel more and more! Is the Deville really any better?
I'll be putting in a new Title (orange) bladder in today.

[Speedbag Seaweed Man]

I'll read your reply a couple more times to understand it.

You're right, I should get the bible soon, but for the moment I'm watching videos for pointers.

The timing on that side punch is a mother!

By the way, I'm liking the SwivelTek LTX Ball Hook Swivel more and more! Is the Deville really any better?
I'll be putting in a new Title (orange) bladder in today.

For those combinations where you hit the bag from a new direction after just one rebound (new- as in a different direction than the punch before) it works best to hit the bag at the moment in time when it is plumb below the swivel. (This is the angle it hangs when you are not hitting it). When it is in a straight up and down angle like this you can hit it from any direction and it will go.

So you hit the front (FCP) it rebounds once and right then you hit it again with a side single punch (SSP) after just one bounce (').
So you get this- (FCP)'(SSP). If the timing is bang on and the punch puts the bag where you wanted it then you will hear two sounds, one from each fist with one rebound in between. Like D D kind of sound. Note how hard you are hitting and hear the tempo of those sounds.(tempo - as in the amount of time in between these D sounds)

The amount of time between these D sounds will be the same for the D sound of your next punch in the sequence, the reverse single punch. (RSP) and you will get 3 accented sounds from the 3 fists D D D each with one rebound between them. Then you will have (FCP)'(SSP)'(RSP).

Like a metronome, the punches will want to land on the bag on this tempo. That helps your ear tell your fist when to punch. It will become more a matter of your ears telling you of the timing than your eyes. The eyes just help the process.

By trial and error you will get this timing nailed. Then you can add another punch after one rebound such as another reverse punch making the last technique a reverse double punch, or you could add a side single punch- that would be sick.

The Speed Bag Bible is a must have. I'm not the best at explaining it in a way where you can easily understand me but I'd love to help if i can. Alan Kahn does a fantastic job of this and his book is easy to follow. I might get another copy soon too, I've read mine ragged. So cheap to buy especially considering how much gold is in there.

As for a swivel comparison I couldn't say, I hit on a heavy clunky U-bolt then got one Deville then two more. Haven't tried your one . I'm sure someone on here has though. You could get a Deville and tell us? lol.

[Dutchman]

The Deville came into being when Everlast ceased to make the iconic ball & hook swivel that was in their line for decades. They switched to two definitely inferior plastic ones that since have been replaced a U bar one.

One of our members, Ms Deville (and her other half, trainer Raul) came up with a ball & hook that uses a precision machined nylon base with a metal ball. While I personally haven't tried one, the reviews were very positive from the start. Improvements have been made over the course of production. One of the most noticeable things about it is that it's a lot quieter than a traditional all metal ball & hook. While some enjoy the compound clacking of a metal one, others prefer a less of it, wanting to concentrate on the actual sound of the bag bouncing off the platform.

[paranday]

I think Alan Kahn was a tap dancer at one time. He loves the clickity clack of an all metal ball hook.

[BaggerBob]

I don't know who makes the SwivelTek LTX Ball Hook Swivel, it is a nice design too.

There is a hard plastic o-ring and plastic disc in the screw on part of the swivel.

The brass ball has a flat spot on top that hits the plastic disc before the hook makes contact with the side. It doesn't clack.

I can't compare the two, not having tried the Deville, but it seems everyone likes the Deville the best.

[EveryDayAverageNormalGuy]

You're right, I should get the bible soon, but for the moment I'm watching videos for pointers.

I'd recommend taking advantage of the $20 offer from the author here. I've only watched ~35 minutes of it so far but it helped me a lot more than the videos I found here & on youtube. I don't speak the language yet either.

[Speedbag]

I'll read your reply a couple more times to understand it.

You're right, I should get the bible soon, but for the moment I'm watching videos for pointers.

The timing on that side punch is a mother!

I think you may be making it harder than it needs to be. The SSP in the combo discussed in this thread is really more of a wrist motion angling a RSP fist contact into the side of the bag. Since it happens so fast in the combination the entire arm, or even the lower part (elbow to wrist) doesn't really "move" as much as the wrists just flips the index area into the side of the bag. For repetitive Side Single Punching (SSP) there is more arm involvement.

By the way, I'm liking the SwivelTek LTX Ball Hook Swivel more and more! Is the Deville really any better?
I'll be putting in a new Title (orange) bladder in today.

I have recently hit the SwivelTek LTX ballhook at the Gathering. It is a great ballhook, fast and accurate. As for "Better" that would be a tough call. Better can mean certain things that can't really be decided after a couple of days use. They are both great ballhooks and I could imagine that over time you might eventually favor one over the other. Everyone that hit it at the gathering - (and there were a few "very good baggers" at the gathering) seemed to like it, however all the Timed and measured contests were held on the deville.

You just had to be there....

[BaggerBob]

I think you may be making it harder than it needs to be. The SSP in the combo discussed in this thread is really more of a wrist motion angling a RSP fist contact into the side of the bag. Since it happens so fast in the combination the entire arm, or even the lower part (elbow to wrist) doesn't really "move" as much as the wrists just flips the index area into the side of the bag. For repetitive Side Single Punching (SSP) there is more arm involvement.



I have recently hit the SwivelTek LTX ballhook at the Gathering. It is a great ballhook, fast and accurate. As for "Better" that would be a tough call. Better can mean certain things that can't really be decided after a couple of days use. They are both great ballhooks and I could imagine that over time you might eventually favor one over the other. Everyone that hit it at the gathering - (and there were a few "very good baggers" at the gathering) seemed to like it, however all the Timed and measured contests were held on the deville.

You just had to be there....

Hi Alan,

I appreciate the info you provide to this site and to me.

You have contributed a lot to the sport of speed bagging...in fact, from what I've read about you, you have made the speed bag a sport with the techniques you have developed!

Have you ever thought of getting a company to sponsor you with your own line of speed bags, built to your specs, sizes and colors?
If you ever do, put me down for a set of Alan Kahn Speed King bags. Autograph would be extra I'm sure.

Thanks again for your input,
Bob

PS. I hope everyone had a great time at the gathering! I'll be there next year.

[Speedbag]

Hi Alan,

I appreciate the info you provide to this site and to me.

You have contributed a lot to the sport of speed bagging...in fact, from what I've read about you, you have made the speed bag a sport with the techniques you have developed!

Thanks, I appreciate the thought, however if you watch the awesome documentary The ART of the Bag You will see that I really did not "develop" the punching or elbow striking techniques. They have been around a long time before I showed up. At one time I was fool hardy enough to think I had "created" a few new techniques but alas, they were all being done in the early 1900's on vaudeville stages around the country. Check this out from 1904

At best I added some organizational sense to it all and tried to create a logical progression of learning it all from simple to complex.

Then again, what you read about me might have been on the internet. In that case, it's true. Because
they can't put it on the internet if it isn't true.

Have you ever thought of getting a company to sponsor you with your own line of speed bags, built to your specs, sizes and colors?
If you ever do, put me down for a set of Alan Kahn Speed King bags. Autograph would be extra I'm sure.

Thanks again for your input,
Bob

PS. I hope everyone had a great time at the gathering! I'll be there next year.

Sure I thought of that.... but the "companies" have not.
Many are very supportive of the speed bag communities activities in general and have listened to and supported some of my ideas in particular. I've been associated with a few of them in one way or another for over 20 years and all are good people. But the conversation of having bags with my name on them never really came up. I'm hoping one of these days one of our more prominent, advanced baggers will get that chance, and I think that may happen if it ever gets featured in a main stream way, ie...major motion picture, Major TV (super bowl etc). But in today's world they may be as likely to have a kim kardashian bag as much as one of us.

[BaggerBob]

Thanks, I appreciate the thought, however if you watch the awesome documentary The ART of the Bag You will see that I really did not "develop" the punching or elbow striking techniques. They have been around a long time before I showed up. At one time I was fool hardy enough to think I had "created" a few new techniques but alas, they were all being done in the early 1900's on vaudeville stages around the country. Check this out from 1904

At best I added some organizational sense to it all and tried to create a logical progression of learning it all from simple to complex.

Then again, what you read about me might have been on the internet. In that case, it's true. Because
they can't put it on the internet if it isn't true.

Sure I thought of that.... but the "companies" have not.
Many are very supportive of the speed bag communities activities in general and have listened to and supported some of my ideas in particular. I've been associated with a few of them in one way or another for over 20 years and all are good people. But the conversation of having bags with my name on them never really came up. I'm hoping one of these days one of our more prominent, advanced baggers will get that chance, and I think that may happen if it ever gets featured in a main stream way, ie...major motion picture, Major TV (super bowl etc). But in today's world they may be as likely to have a kim kardashian bag as much as one of us.

I think you're being modest.
Most people (myself) have only known/seen the boxer style of straight-on speed bagging.

What I think you have done with your influence and your book, is motivate many in the non-boxing and boxing world, to take up the speed bag and to the next level.

I think what was done in the early 1900's on vaudeville stages, was not to teach how to hit the bag, just as a spectator display.

Your contribution has made the art more popular and is still gaining popularity today. I don't think anyone that takes up the practice today hasn't heard of you and your book.

As far as a tribute to your work, a bag with your name and by your specs, maybe you should think about trying again with one of the major manufactures. Maybe with the help with letters/videos from of the top speed bag members of this site, you could get a someone to take a look again?

What I think you have over any advanced talent "non-celebrity" is your reputation, the moniker "Godfather" "King", and having written the book.

The only way a Kim Kardashian bag deal would happen, is if there was a pair of 15"x 12" bags mounted to a special board.
It would be hideous, but someone would probably buy it.

Who has their bag in the US?