Welcome Deville #13!

[speedy G]

Great news I received my Deville swivel today and replaced my chain link - which had grown on me - but was limiting in my desire to "save souls one punch at a time."

I'm loving the Deville and already feel the vast difference in bag and bounce mobility - or stability - not sure how you baggers refer to it. I'll know more when my SBB arrives.

anyway, some questions for you all: does a swivel have a "break in" period, and if so what is it?

I'm somewhat surprised that the ball and hook ( and particularly the big D) isn't much faster than the chain link, for some reason I expected the bag to fly fast and wild at first, but it actually seems equal to or slower in some regards (though extremely more mobile and responsive).

any wisdom or insight is appreciated, as always!

I'll post another pic when I get my sb bible and set up my altar.

peace. mike

[Speedbag]

Great news I received my Deville swivel today and replaced my chain link - which had grown on me - but was limiting in my desire to "save souls one punch at a time."

I'm loving the Deville and already feel the vast difference in bag and bounce mobility - or stability - not sure how you baggers refer to it. I'll know more when my SBB arrives.

anyway, some questions for you all: does a swivel have a "break in" period, and if so what is it?

I'm somewhat surprised that the ball and hook ( and particularly the big D) isn't much faster than the chain link, for some reason I expected the bag to fly fast and wild at first, but it actually seems equal to or slower in some regards (though extremely more mobile and responsive).

any wisdom or insight is appreciated, as always!

I'll post another pic when I get my sb bible and set up my altar.

peace. mike

For the 45+ years I've been bagging, the Jury has rated the chain link slightly faster than a ballhook in straight time front punching. You put the same bag on a ball hook, then chainlink and it feels faster on a chainlink. Then for sheer speed with front punching (only) some rated the initial U-bolt models faster. (the newer u-bolts are to poorly put together IMHO to be rated. the last ones I've seen and used are rattle traps).

The extra speed of the chain link may be due to a bit less friction of a parts in constant contact with the housing, as the ball is. That same Jury has rated the ballhook superior in bible style punching control because the angle of a rebound and contact are NOT negatively influenced by the simple ballhook construction, but occasionally (not always, in truth - rarely) the chain linkage alignment will negative influence the chain link swivel when punching from all around. Basically, the ballhook design doesn't influence the rebound, while occasionally the chain link design does influence the rebound, and the bag may not necessarily be where you want it for contact on the sweet spot and you will notice a slight miss hit or slippage of the fist or just plain miss because the bag. You will notice it much more when you begin using the Side Single Punch (SSP), which is used in the Side Double Punch (SDP), Side-Triple Elbow Strike (S-TES) and a few more advanced punches, the Reverse Side Double Punch (R-SDP) and Side Reverse Double Punch (S-RDP). This create a lot of connections from different directions with only one rebound inbetween. As you know, sometimes the bag also spins with contact and this spinning can change the link alignments so the next punch may connect the bag when the link alignment will slightly alter the direction. I always seemed to miss on the chain link when doing a lot side punching.

was not where it was supposed to be in reaction to the punch that launched it. For a long time I thought it was just me... I made a bad punch or contact before the miss. But, my ears did not detect any miss hit, and my hands did not detect a miss hit in the punch before the miss or in the action of my punch. Watching many of these in super slow motion (courtesy of a high speed shutter at 500th and 10000 of a second speed) I could watch super slow motion footage of chain link misses and notice the links were slightly "chinked" or the punch angle was slightly altered by the link alignments. Then, as other very skilled "bible style" baggers started hitting more and more, they too noticed they "miss a lot more on a chain link than a ballhook" and they would contact me asking if it was them or the swivel. Now, in the modern era since this birth of this forum and many advanced baggers have jumped in, they all seem to believe the chain link somehow creates more miss hits and "occasionally" messes with the angle of rebound. This problem has been noted (in my life) since the late 1980's and continues today. My belief is: They can't all be liars. "They" miss more with a chain link and report more control in Bible Style Punching with a ball hook. Me personally, I'll always give up a bit of speed for control, because when you are out of control you will probably miss and all speed is lost when you crash and burn anyway. Of course, some say the ballhook, particularly the deville model, has a learning curve of its own, mostly from a control stand point. For years, when baggers changed from a chain link to a bigger ball everlast model, (metal ball, metal housing), there was very little control problem, and most complaints were "it's slower than my chainlink".

The plastic ball, plastic housing ballhook model by everlast for a while seemed very fast but had a weird float feeling and made control a bit more difficult (IMO anyway). The modern Deville Ballhook is extremely fast and demands a bit more precision and control and I think it is because of ball size as well as ball and housing material - with very little friction in it's action. IMO It is the Hennessey Venom GT (fastest) of the ball hook models, driven by the best under the board and they all love it. There is a new "fringe" movement of trying to remove the actual "hook" and go to tie, or string from the eye to the bag. Actually it is a throw back to the older style swivels seen in some of the vaudeville footage. Personally I have not hit them enough to comment on them.

[fedora]

Great analysis Speedbag. Regarding your last paragraph, I started using the leather strap on the eye rather than the hook because I'm never consistent enough to always hit the sweet spot and just when I would get a good routine going I would be off just a bit and the hook would ride up and hang up on the eye. The leather strap allows me to "cheat" a bit, and lets me keep going. I know there is the thought that that will just keep me from learning to get it right every time, but realistically at my age I'm never going to have the hand and eye coordination of a 25 year old. So it allows me to have more fun and less frustration.

fedora

[speedy G]

Thanks Speedbag! Great info, history and explanation. I shall stay the course and keep the faith!