Inward elbow front straight punch

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  • new2sb
    Speed Bag Trainee
    • May 2011
    • 4

    Inward elbow front straight punch

    I've been hitting the speed bag for about a year so now I'm trying to learn how to do elbows which has proved a bit challenging. The gym I hit at just got a deville swivel as I was using either a uhook or a chain link style swivel since they have three platforms at my gym. Took me a week or so to get use the deville but now it's really nice.

    I've seemed to be able to get the hang of outward then fist strikes but the inward elbow with a FSP has proven a bit tougher.

    I think I may've tried to learn how to do this incorrectly. I was doing more of a hook with the punch circling down and then my elbow popping upward and then in the direction of the hook punch. Is this incorrect? Or is this too much movement.

    I looked at some vids and it shows a FSP and then the elbow in with the FSP and the elbow always on the same plane. I've tried this but when my elbow hits the bag the bag just stops so it feels like I don't have enough follow through with my elbow to make the bag move. I don't know if I'm standing too far back or if I need to move my hips more into the elbow to get enough power.

    I ultimately want to do a 4 way continuous elbow. I've seen some vids on here that are very impressive and they make it look easy. Hopefully someone can help from description.
  • PunchDrummer
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 247

    #2
    I think one of the tricks to the inward elbows, especially the 4-way finish, is to "step-through" them, striking with a positioned elbow by moving your body to get the power to that elbow to drive the strike rather than try to throw your shoulder out to it. That's why it's typically a "finish" combo - you can be out of position to continue when you finish. With some practice balancing body movement and a little shoulder movement (be gentle on your shoulder sockets), you can be in a position to catch the rebound from the rear (or side). The continuous 4-ways requre healthy side-to-side bending to get them. I personally prefer continuous 5-ways because the first fist ("phantom punch" under the elbow) helps set bag position for the first elbow, but still need a bit of practice because I am disciplining myself on Frankenswivel - a U-Bolt top with a Chain Link bottom (the master link instead of the U and bolt). The DeVille Ball-hook comes highly recommended, and really has the appropriate design for this style of speed bagging.
    Good luck and have fun. I hope this helps.
    Last edited by PunchDrummer; 10-18-2012, 07:44 PM.

    Comment

    • Jake
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2011
      • 113

      #3
      I found concentrating on bringing the fist back into the chest helped me. I heard Skunk say that on a video.

      Try touching your thumb into the center of your chest. After throwing a FSP.

      Throw that FSP aiming to send the bag at about 10:00 or 2:00 on the board.

      You can bring your fist back to your chest just under your chin. This keeps the strike more on the same plane, and sends the bag more sideways.

      Or bring your fist back to a lower spot on your chest, and you will find the bag goes more towards the front of the board, and you will be hitting in more of a downward arch.

      My favorite spot is somewhere in the middle.

      Jake,
      Last edited by Jake; 10-19-2012, 12:45 PM.

      Comment

      • Speedbag
        Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

        • Feb 2006
        • 7109

        #4
        Originally posted by Jake View Post
        I found concentrating on bringing the fist back into the chest helped me. I heard Skunk say that on a video.

        Try touching your thumb into the center of your chest. After throwing a FSP.

        Throw that FSP aiming to send the bag at about 10:00 or 2:00 on the board.

        You can bring your fist back to your chest just under your chin. This keeps the strike more on the same plane, and sends the bag more sideways.
        Or bring your fist back to a lower spot on your chest, and you will find the bag goes more towards the front of the board, and you will be hitting in more of a downward arch.My favorite spot is somewhere in the middle.

        Jake,
        All of these will work, for it is a personal preference of body position and timing. Your positional choice may change as your speed of combinations changes. The faster you try to use a combination with an inward elbow strike, the less position change of the fist and arm works best. Or not. Just depends on the doer.

        To get more authority on the inward elbow contact, try using it by itself. Practice Inward Single Elbow Strikes (I-SES) on their own. Since it is an "inward" motion, It replaces the Front Straight Punch (FSP) in the Basic Rhythm. It is the hardest contact on the bag to make with authority and the twisted body position makes it a bit more difficult to recover from.

        I suggest you Find which way works best for you. You CAN do it!
        Speed Bag

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        • Jake
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 113

          #5
          I said aim for 10:00 and 2:00 on the board, but when I thought about it, I realized I probably hit more towards 11:00 and 1:00 on 4-ways.

          I guess 10:00 would be considered a side punch.

          Comment

          • new2sb
            Speed Bag Trainee
            • May 2011
            • 4

            #6
            Thanks for the tips. Making an effort to bring back the fist to the chest made a big difference. I think part of my problem was not hitting the bag flush with the point of the elbow thus hitting on the elbow/upper forearm took away some of my power. The other way I was hitting the bag was a bit too much movement to come back cleanly for the rest of the four way.

            I hit the hook swivel for a little while today and I couldn't believe how big of a difference the DeVille Ball-hook made for my speed bag hitting in the way of accuracy. I'll keep practicing as I'll get it eventually. A year ago I couldn't hit the bag at all with any punches.

            Jake, your 4 way video is very good. After seeing it, I wanted to learn how to do this combo.

            Comment

            • Matalac
              Speed Bag Trainee
              • Jan 2013
              • 3

              #7
              Inward ebow

              I don't know if you figured this one out yet but I also had a hell of a time doing the inward elbow strike. You have to rotate your upper body. If you hold your fists up at chin level with elbows up and you can just rotate into the bag super simple once you get the hang of it. I learned from Alan Kahn speed bag bible video. just rotate and keep elbows up, hope this helps.

              Comment

              • AugustChief
                Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 88

                #8
                Can you post a video link of the elbow strikes you're referring to?

                I own the Speed bag Bible and gradually progressing thru. Thanks

                Comment

                • Speedbag
                  Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                  • Feb 2006
                  • 7109

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Matalac View Post
                  I don't know if you figured this one out yet but I also had a hell of a time doing the inward elbow strike. You have to rotate your upper body. If you hold your fists up at chin level with elbows up and you can just rotate into the bag super simple once you get the hang of it. I learned from Alan Kahn speed bag bible video. just rotate and keep elbows up, hope this helps.
                  Your statement is correct. One way to do the inward elbow strikes, particularly the Inward Double Elbow Strike (I-DES) and Inward Triple Elbow Strike (I-TES) is to keep the forearm pretty much straight, fist and elbow in a straight line, and turn the body into the bag. the bag will hit the fist and rebound directly into the elbow. The fist usually ends up just at the chin or at the neck.

                  However, there is another way that works and that is to angle the fist downward slightly after contact with the bag, creating a downward angle from elbow to fist. the bag will rebound into the elbow like the other movement, but as the inward elbow hits the fist will be down about the chest and the forearm will have a slightly downward angle.

                  Originally posted by AugustChief View Post
                  Can you post a video link of the elbow strikes you're referring to?
                  I have found both methods work equally well, and sometimes I do one or the other. However, in the modern day of more complex combinations using the inward elbows, (shadow punches underneath, and more advanced combinations with one rebound only in between, such as
                  (I-TES) ' (I-TES), I find the most efficient way is to keep the forearm level. I notice this is how Ebozyn does some of his amazing elbow combinations, with that fascinating over and under the elbow punching (2:18 - 2:27) below.

                  this is SCARY Good..



                  I can't imagine doing some of that without keep the fists up close to the chin.

                  to see how the fist can be angled downward when doing inward elbows, here is a great example by Speedbag Skunk. (:42 - 1:44) notice the angle of his right arm as he does the Inward double Elbow punch of the four way movement. Also, note the angles of his forearmes at 2:20 - 2:24 as he does phantom straight punches under the out-In Four Way ES.



                  You could also do this while keeping the fist up level but I rarely see him do it that way.

                  Hope this helps.
                  Speed Bag

                  Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                  *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                  The Quest Continues...
                  Hoping for another Gathering...


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                  • PunchDrummer
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 247

                    #10
                    I happened to capture this the other day.
                    It's another viewing perspective to the "finishing" Inner Elbow Strike.
                    It's a slightly unnatural position (chicken wing), so try practicing the Elbow Strike by itself – without any leading fists.

                    It seems relevant. I hope it helps demonstrate.




                    Here is another viewing perspective to the "finishing" Inner Elbow Strike.It's a slightly unnatural position (chicken wing), so try practicing the Elbow Stri...
                    Last edited by PunchDrummer; 01-12-2013, 09:43 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Speedbag
                      Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                      • Feb 2006
                      • 7109

                      #11
                      Originally posted by PunchDrummer View Post
                      I happened to capture this the other day.
                      It's another viewing perspective to the "finishing" Inner Elbow Strike.
                      It's a slightly unnatural position (chicken wing), so try practicing the Elbow Strike by itself – without any leading fists.

                      It seems relevant. I hope it helps demonstrate.




                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLA1lpoX7jc
                      Yes, downward angle of the I-DES very evident. You could also bring it straight across for a straighter chicken wing.
                      Speed Bag

                      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                      The Quest Continues...
                      Hoping for another Gathering...


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                      • PunchDrummer
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 247

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                        Yes, downward angle of the I-DES very evident. You could also bring it straight across for a straighter chicken wing.
                        I'm not sure if a downward angle is effective or just poor form? It feels good (great when you nail the belly just right), but I don't want to maintain a bad habit.

                        I love the I-SES (Inner Single Elbow Strike) even though I procrastinated practicing and learning it because it is such an un-natural movement (for me at least). As evidenced by the knockout vid., it's effective without getting your hands dirty (or broken), and if you notice in the vid, the hands start up - he's holding the article of clothing that's around his neck.

                        From an application perspective, is straight-across the proper techique?

                        Thanks!

                        Comment

                        • Speedbag
                          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                          • Feb 2006
                          • 7109

                          #13
                          Originally posted by PunchDrummer View Post
                          I'm not sure if a downward angle is effective or just poor form? It feels good (great when you nail the belly just right), but I don't want to maintain a bad habit.

                          I love the I-SES (Inner Single Elbow Strike) even though I procrastinated practicing and learning it because it is such an un-natural movement (for me at least). As evidenced by the knockout vid., it's effective without getting your hands dirty (or broken), and if you notice in the vid, the hands start up - he's holding the article of clothing that's around his neck.

                          From an application perspective, is straight-across the proper techique?

                          Thanks!
                          I can't really say there one definitive "proper technique" for the use of this movement, for I see some of the best baggers use both positions occasionally. IMO The best definition of "proper technique" is: the direction of the next strike. by that I mean, what will you do after that inward elbow connects the bag. What will you follow with, and what is the best arm position to do that?

                          Try this. Do an Inward Double Elbow Strike (I-DES) with the Right Fist-Elbow, then come back (return) to

                          Right Arm: Front Circle Punch on three rebounds I-DES ' ' ' FCP
                          Right Arm: Front Circle Punch on one rebound I-DES ' FCP
                          Right-Left Front Double Punch (FDP) after three rebounds: I-DES ' ' ' FDP
                          Right-Left Front Double Punch (FDP) after one rebounds: I-DES ' FDP
                          R/L-L Inward Triple Elbow Strike after three rebounds I-DES ' ' ' I-TES
                          R/L-L Inward Triple Elbow Strike after one rebound I-DES ' I-TES

                          Outward Double Elbow Strike (O-DES) with the same Arm (Right) after Three rebounds: I-DES ' ' ' O-DES
                          this is Right: Fist-Elbow ' ' ' Elbow-Fist ]

                          Outward Double Elbow Strike (O-DES) with the same Arm (Right) after one rebound: I-DES 'O-DES
                          [ this is Right: Fist-Elbow ' Elbow-Fist ]

                          Outward Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES) leading with the same Arm (Right) after Three rebounds: I-DES ' ' ' O-TES [ this is Right: Fist-Elbow ' ' ' Elbow-Fist-Fist ]

                          Outward Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES) leading with the same Arm (Right) after one rebounds I-DES 'O-TES [ this is Right: Fist-Elbow ' Elbow-Fist-Fist ] or Right Fist ' Right Inward Elbow ' Right outward Elbow, Right fist, Left fist.

                          or perhaps follow the Right arm I-DES with a R-L Side Double Punch (SDP)
                          I-DES ' ' SDP.

                          Now, try those with both movements, letting the right fist drop and winging your elbow into the bag, and keeping that arm pretty much level. Whichever method allows you to do these combinations, (and yes they are all possible) is the "proper method" for you.

                          For me, the very first rule to consider when looking at combinations is: Where is the very next strike coming from around that bag and what is the most efficient position to allow that to happen. I know that there are at least 12 different techniques that can follow ANY of the 24 techniques, and for many techniques you have 18 possibilities afterward. that's a lot of testing.

                          And actually if you add in phantom punches, (FSP under that inward moving arm..) there are even more. Think about this: Do an Inward-Double Elbow Strike and return with an Outward Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES) but lead it with a phantom fist under the Inward double. Remember, an advanced variation of the O-TES is now possible with a contact order of F \ E-F, with the leading fist a phantom front straight punch under the forearm of the other arm. So you would have:

                          I-DES ' ' ' O-TES ( Right F-E ' ' ' L-FSP \ Right Elbow - Right Fist)

                          now do it with one rebound
                          I-DES ' O-TES ( Right F-E ' L-FSP \ Right Elbow - Right Fist)


                          **** All possible*****

                          a bit mind boggling when you think about it. and once again proves that some legitimate system of writing these combinations is possible and badly needed. Who could remember all that by just seeing someone do it. ?
                          Last edited by Speedbag; 01-14-2013, 10:15 AM.
                          Speed Bag

                          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                          The Quest Continues...
                          Hoping for another Gathering...


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                          The Art of the Bag

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                          • PunchDrummer
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 247

                            #14
                            It took me years to learn IBM’s and Microsoft’s acronyms, but a little AD (attention deficit) and a little OC (obsessive/compulsive) worked together and I eventually mastered all of them and understood their roots, which makes it easy to keep up. (I designed databases for a living.)

                            A page full of acronyms still scares the hell out of me, but I could actually read and visualize exactly what you were “saying” Alan - in real time, just like reading music or a book. How cool it that!!

                            When it’s fun, it seems I (we) learn – relatively effortlessly. (And I’m pretty lazy.)
                            All you have to do is "do it".

                            Made my day! (If I would put the same effort into reading bass clef instead of improvising, I might be a decent piano player.) Thanks!!

                            Comment

                            • Speedbag
                              Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

                              • Feb 2006
                              • 7109

                              #15
                              Originally posted by PunchDrummer View Post
                              It took me years to learn IBM’s and Microsoft’s acronyms, but a little AD (attention deficit) and a little OC (obsessive/compulsive) worked together and I eventually mastered all of them and understood their roots, which makes it easy to keep up. (I designed databases for a living.)

                              A page full of acronyms still scares the hell out of me, but I could actually read and visualize exactly what you were “saying” Alan - in real time, just like reading music or a book. How cool it that!!

                              When it’s fun, it seems I (we) learn – relatively effortlessly. (And I’m pretty lazy.)
                              All you have to do is "do it".

                              Made my day! (If I would put the same effort into reading bass clef instead of improvising, I might be a decent piano player.) Thanks!!
                              HOW COOL IS THAT?

                              I would answer: Very! I appreciate your dedication. I can imagine Beethovans joy to watch todays musicians play the musical score of his 9th Symphony.

                              Sadly, he never heard a note of it played, for he had already gone deaf. The night of it's opening is represented in this video clip from the movie Immortal Beloved. He could only hear it in his head, and this was acknowledged by the crowd who knew of his demise.

                              I can only imagine the strength of character it takes to write such an amazingly complex, power and beautiful score of music without the ability to hear it during the process of writing or afterward. But I for one am glad he did. very cool indeed.


                              Last edited by Speedbag; 01-15-2013, 07:28 PM.
                              Speed Bag

                              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                              The Quest Continues...
                              Hoping for another Gathering...


                              sigpic

                              The Art of the Bag

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