lessons learned the hard way

[shaunm81]

I learned real fast that those free standing units arent what a person should be trying to speed bag on. those are very unstable setups and I learned a lesson the hard way on those setups. so what I am wanting to know which of these wall setups what one would be the best? http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-Elite...d+bag+platform or this one http://www.amazon.com/TITLE-Classic-...d+bag+platform
I just thought about saying forget it but after purchasing the deville swivel and drum I decided to just try a better platform that is more stable. so has anyone used one of these wall mount units? if so how is the vibration in one of them?



I was also curious as to how hard your supposed to hit a speed bag? I never thought I was hitting mine to hard but obviously I was wrong because the bag is like a week old and is coming loose in areas so I was wondering how hard is a man supposed to hit these things? isnt the idea of a speed bag to get speed built up? thanks

[Dutchman]

The idea is to control the bag, not kill it, but Skunk is known to do both. What make bag are you using? A good quality bag should not be failing this soon with normal use. You do not need to hit a bag with all you have, just enough to keep it in motion.
The Title platform is good beginners start, while the Everlast one is the next step up

[Speedbag]

Dutchman is correct That Title wall unit will be fine for a while, however if you can go the extra cost I suggest you go ahead and get the everlast as the adjust is much easier.

If a speed bag is coming apart in a week, it's a poorly made bag. These things can withstand far more power than we untrained amatuers put on them, and last for months.

I hate to say it but you many need another bag.

[shaunm81]

Dutchman,


the bag I have is the Title Classic small red bag. I purchased it new from Title Boxing. I was trying to go easy on the bag but seemed not to matter. anyways thanks for the help with it all.

[shaunm81]

Alan,

I will probably get the more higher everlast setup. I also didnt think a brand new bag should be coming apart like that. pretty disapointed with the Title Classic I probably should of just got the small yellow title bag. I also had a small tear hole in the top where it hangs on to the swivel im not sure if that is common for them to wear like that or not? also could I have over inflated that bag? I used the push both them in method into the bag to see if I over inflated but I dont think I did truthfully. anyways thanks for the help. should I try another title bag? or should I just go with a different brand? perhaps I got a dud.

[Speedbag]

Alan,

I will probably get the more higher everlast setup. I also didnt think a brand new bag should be coming apart like that. pretty disapointed with the Title Classic I probably should of just got the small yellow title bag. I also had a small tear hole in the top where it hangs on to the swivel im not sure if that is common for them to wear like that or not? also could I have over inflated that bag? I used the push both them in method into the bag to see if I over inflated but I dont think I did truthfully. anyways thanks for the help. should I try another title bag? or should I just go with a different brand? perhaps I got a dud.

Maybe you did get a dud. I've had several Title Classics and they hold up well.

...if the bag was new, call title up and tell them what happened and you want to trade it up for a better bag. the fighting sports has a better quality leather than title...ralph

Absolutely. Call them, and get another one. They may want you to send the bad one back, but if it sucks you don't want it anyway.

[Randolph]

I learned real fast that those free standing units arent what a person should be trying to speed bag on. those are very unstable setups and I learned a lesson the hard way on those setups. so what I am wanting to know which of these wall setups what one would be the best? http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-Elite...d+bag+platform or this one http://www.amazon.com/TITLE-Classic-...d+bag+platform
I just thought about saying forget it but after purchasing the deville swivel and drum I decided to just try a better platform that is more stable. so has anyone used one of these wall mount units? if so how is the vibration in one of them?



I was also curious as to how hard your supposed to hit a speed bag? I never thought I was hitting mine to hard but obviously I was wrong because the bag is like a week old and is coming loose in areas so I was wondering how hard is a man supposed to hit these things? isnt the idea of a speed bag to get speed built up? thanks

I think everyone would agree, whether you hit for control or practice faster precision power punches, you want a stable platform.

I just took a peek at the links you asked about and would STRONLY advise you to go with the EVERLAST platform; that thin TITLE board is going to perform much like the free standing unit you found so disappointing.

Here is a fun video of my home made nightmare platform that is a result of needing to go LOW BUDGET, but it might just help illuminate the concept of what a STRONG and STABLE platform can mean..

http://youtu.be/ITJXJECmnf8

[MsDeville]

...i forgot to mention the fighting sports i have the small 6x9 black and white bag i hated at first (was slow) then i changed the bladder to the title orange bladder and love it with that baladder, also have pounded on the bag and it will hold up...ralph

Yes, I had the Fighting Sports for months and hated it because it was hard, and it was slow. It sat on the shelf... But, with some adjusting like upgrading my swivel , changing the bladder, and changing the way I struck the bag helped to change my opinion. It has become one of my favorites.

I was also curious how hard your supposed to hit a speed bag? I never thought I was hitting mine too hard but obviously I was wrong because the bag is like a week old and is coming loose in areas so I was wondering how hard is a man supposed to hit these things? Isnt the idea of a speed bag to get speed built up? thanks

That's a good question, Shaun. I think there's this misconception about this. When I watch newbies hitting the bag, they tend to hit it as though they want to pop it! Or, maybe they are thinking "the harder I hit it, the faster it will go." In any case, with practice, I think you learn how LITTLE you need to hit the bag to make it "go fast." My trainer once told me that if trained properly, a man can deliver a knockout punch in as little distance as 6 inches. I imagine that would take a very controlled, forceful strike.

I think I have altered my punching style since I began hitting the bag. And, most recently, I think I have finally hit my stride, so to speak. I think it took a little longer for me, but eventually, you will discover the perfect striking force that will optimize the movement of the bag without having to really whale on it.

Just watch some of Skunk's videos of his amazing speed. And he makes it look effortless. He's a wizard bagger. But, if you watch closely, you might be able to pick up his technique. There's like a snap to his punches, which I think makes the bag move faster. I'm not good at analyzing, but I think he does some sort of minimal wrist action. I don't know. Alan will set me straight if I'm off base on this...

Here is a prime example of Skunk's speed. I shot this at SpeedB.A.G. II laster year:

To answer your other question: Isnt the idea of a speed bag to get speed built up?

As I have progressed, I have found it easier and easier to "catch my flubs" and correct them without losing a beat. So, yes, to me, the idea of a speed bag is to get speed built up to the point where you react without even thinking about it. I have found that my eye-hand coordination has improved, too since taking up the speed bag. It's like that game of Flinch, where you stand opposite your opponent with your hands out, yours below the opponent's hands. You try to see if you can whip your hands above his and strike them before he can flinch them out of your way. After you have been speed bagging for a while, try that hand game with a buddy and see who wins that game...

[Randolph]

Speed bag Skunk is INCREDIBLE!

[Speedbag]

Yes, I had the Fighting Sports for months and hated it because it was hard, and it was slow. It sat on the shelf... But, with some adjusting like upgrading my swivel , changing the bladder, and changing the way I struck the bag helped to change my opinion. It has become one of my favorites.

That's a good question, Shaun. I think there's this misconception about this. When I watch newbies hitting the bag, they tend to hit it as though they want to pop it! Or, maybe they are thinking "the harder I hit it, the faster it will go." In any case, with practice, I think you learn how LITTLE you need to hit the bag to make it "go fast." My trainer once told me that if trained properly, a man can deliver a knockout punch in as little distance as 6 inches. I imagine that would take a very controlled, forceful strike.

I think I have altered my punching style since I began hitting the bag. And, most recently, I think I have finally hit my stride, so to speak. I think it took a little longer for me, but eventually, you will discover the perfect striking force that will optimize the movement of the bag without having to really whale on it.

Just watch some of Skunk's videos of his amazing speed. And he makes it look effortless. He's a wizard bagger. But, if you watch closely, you might be able to pick up his technique. There's like a snap to his punches, which I think makes the bag move faster. I'm not good at analyzing, but I think he does some sort of minimal wrist action. I don't know. Alan will set me straight if I'm off base on this...

Here is a prime example of Skunk's speed. I shot this at SpeedB.A.G. II last year:

I would agree with Dee completely. Skunk makes it look effortless at mock speed and I think that is because he has learned to relax what is not needed in the repetitive punching motions. He just eases into it and floats off at mock 2. The really fast ones do that. He doesn't look all strained, flexed or tight, trying to hit harder and harder... his movements are relaxed and flowing.

He has gotten better at this through the years. when I first met him in 2007 he could hit fast but he was still a bit strained and tense, trying to go faster by tensing and hitting harder. My advice to him at the time was "..stop trying to hit hard or fast. learn to hit relaxed, focus on control. as you learn more relaxed control, your speed will increase automatically"

He is now noticeably faster now than he was then. (not necessary due to what I told him at that time, but He looks a bit smoother in movement, more relaxed as he punches and I might add much stronger due to his other physical training regimes. That added body strength can also be released under relaxed conditions with proper technique.

on the other hand, Zach is a speed bag phenomenon, of almost savante level skills without the autism.

I remember telling Tim later that night (in Orlando) "..that kid doesn't know how fast he can be. when he learns to relax and stops trying to hit hard, he's gonna break the sound barrier". I knew at that point he would take bagging to "the next level" on speed and ingenuity. My own present weekly workouts include very slow practice on incredible combinations that Skunk does at speeds so fast you have to watch it in slow motion to really count the rebounds. I might add ebozyn to that category also. Although slower by choice, his combinations and bag control are simply incredible and fuel many of my latest workouts. I have many written and posted by the board.

I feel like I'm going "Back to Speed Bag School" trying to learn the awesome Triple Lindy

[shaunm81]

...if the bag was new, call title up and tell them what happened and you want to trade it up for a better bag. the fighting sports has a better quality leather than title...ralph

Hello ralph thanks for the idea. I purchased the bag new and I did end up calling them today and the lady told me to email her a couple pictures of the bag. so I did and emailed them to her and she responded back and said she will talk with her manager and will get back to me through phone call. whether or not there gonna replace the bag or not. I hope they make it right because if they do not chances are I will take my business else where. anyways thanks for the idea to call them....SHaun

[shaunm81]

Maybe you did get a dud. I've had several Title Classics and they hold up well.



Absolutely. Call them, and get another one. They may want you to send the bad one back, but if it sucks you don't want it anyway.

thanks Alan I ended up calling them up and they wanted a couple pics so I sent them to them and shes supposed to get back with me about this through a phone call is what she said. I will send the bag back if they want it and I agree 100% and have no problem sending the bag back.

I no this might sound wrong but I noticed on the bag it says "made in china" so I thought oh boy wonder how it will hold up before I ever hit the thing truthfully. I understand so much stuff these days are made over there and its hard getting anything made in the usa anymore. heck china is even making american flags nowadays lol.

[shaunm81]

I think everyone would agree, whether you hit for control or practice faster precision power punches, you want a stable platform.

I just took a peek at the links you asked about and would STRONLY advise you to go with the EVERLAST platform; that thin TITLE board is going to perform much like the free standing unit you found so disappointing.

Here is a fun video of my home made nightmare platform that is a result of needing to go LOW BUDGET, but it might just help illuminate the concept of what a STRONG and STABLE platform can mean..

http://youtu.be/ITJXJECmnf8

Randolph, I am planning on mounting my deville drum and swivel to the new setup which ever one I purchase. I saw how to videos of raul mounting it to one of those setups so I thought I might try one of those? I have no problem getting the higher end everlast one but I was planning on putting the drum ms dee made for me over top of the new setup.


some pretty cool ideas in your videos on the homemade setups. I liked the door setup that would be a good way to mount a couple different bags on it and hit which ever one you wanted to. I would go a route like that if I had my way about it but I wouldnt have any where to setup. I also like how Tim has his wooden setup thats a really good idea I just dont think I would have the room in this small house for something like that to be honest. anyways thanks for the help and I like your videos thanks for sharing.

[shaunm81]

...i forgot to mention the fighting sports i have the small 6x9 black and white bag i hated at first (was slow) then i changed the bladder to the title orange bladder and love it with that baladder, also have pounded on the bag and it will hold up...ralph

Ralph,

thanks for the heads up I will probably end up getting one of those bags if I get any more trouble.

[shaunm81]

That's a good question, Shaun. I think there's this misconception about this. When I watch newbies hitting the bag, they tend to hit it as though they want to pop it! Or, maybe they are thinking "the harder I hit it, the faster it will go." In any case, with practice, I think you learn how LITTLE you need to hit the bag to make it "go fast." My trainer once told me that if trained properly, a man can deliver a knockout punch in as little distance as 6 inches. I imagine that would take a very controlled, forceful strike.

I think I have altered my punching style since I began hitting the bag. And, most recently, I think I have finally hit my stride, so to speak. I think it took a little longer for me, but eventually, you will discover the perfect striking force that will optimize the movement of the bag without having to really whale on it.

Just watch some of Skunk's videos of his amazing speed. And he makes it look effortless. He's a wizard bagger. But, if you watch closely, you might be able to pick up his technique. There's like a snap to his punches, which I think makes the bag move faster. I'm not good at analyzing, but I think he does some sort of minimal wrist action. I don't know. Alan will set me straight if I'm off base on this...

Here is a prime example of Skunk's speed. I shot this at SpeedB.A.G. II laster year:

To answer your other question: Isnt the idea of a speed bag to get speed built up?

As I have progressed, I have found it easier and easier to "catch my flubs" and correct them without losing a beat. So, yes, to me, the idea of a speed bag is to get speed built up to the point where you react without even thinking about it. I have found that my eye-hand coordination has improved, too since taking up the speed bag. It's like that game of Flinch, where you stand opposite your opponent with your hands out, yours below the opponent's hands. You try to see if you can whip your hands above his and strike them before he can flinch them out of your way. After you have been speed bagging for a while, try that hand game with a buddy and see who wins that game...

MsD, very intresting stuff there and thanks for the help. I am going to be truthful with you I thought the harder I would hit the bag the faster it would rebound. I also think most of it is caused from that one station stand setup I have and making me hit it harder because it vibrates like crazy and trys to sway. I am going to be a little more careful next time around with a new bag. again I think that is a lot of my problems is the stand alone setup and hitting it to hard although it dont seem to me like I am but I am probably completely wrong.

I do have one other question for you. how stable is that setup that raul put the deville swivel drum over? I think you probably thought that was what I had instead of the stand alone unit.


WOW that Skunk is really good and sure knows his stuff cool videos im gonna watch alot more of them. I have also watched all of your videos and think there really cool. how in the world did you install that led light in that deville swivel? thats so cool!