Metronome Practice

[Eighty-Eight]

I haven’t posted anything related to my speed bag training in a while. In my last training-type post, I put out an SOS for help on practicing the R-ROLL. Thanks, Alan, for your help. I definitely improved my R-ROLL by practicing your exercises. Some days are better than others, but all are more consistent than they were before.
Lately, here’s what I’ve been working on. I’ve been reading here and there on the forum about how the speed bag should be thought of as a control bag and the importance of regulating the speed and force of your punches. “Slowly and smoothly at first, speed develops in time,” seems to be the motto of all those who speed bag so well. So I decided to incorporate hitting to a metronome into my workouts. I use an online metronome on my laptop (www.webmetronome.com). I start out at around 100 bpm for a 3-minute warm up. I set it to a 4-beat cycle throughout. By the way, I use Tim’s workout timer to define the lengths of my rounds and rest periods. It’s the best. I have both windows displayed on my screen side by side.

You might ask, “Why don’t you just hit to some music?” Here’s why the metronome seems to work well for me at this time:

• A metronome is a basic, no-frills time reference. No style, no feel, just even time.
• I can set a slower tempo for learning a new technique, another one for a technique that seems to be coming along, another tempo for an entire x-round workout, or I can set it so that each round gets slightly ramped up in tempo until the final round, which is hit at a cool-down tempo, etc. I’m sure there are many more uses.
• Although I can punch drum a Basic Rhythm pretty well in slow to moderate tempos, I sometimes get carried away by the music and try to do something rhythmically hip, but don’t have the bag skills to pull it off, so my “great idea” never gets realized.
• There are other times when I get something going on a song that I like, and the music ends just when I was warming up into it. A metronome ticks until you shut it off.

I’ve been experimenting by placing the strong hit the on different parts of the beat and then straightening it out, while having either the lead or second fist performing the stronger hit. Also, I’m practicing varying the speed and force of my hits so that I can come out with different rhythms using the same technique. In about a week, I should be recording my first video so I can share with the forum the skills and concepts that are new to me. As a novice speed bagger [p. 56 of Speed Bag Bible], I’m flying by the seat of my pants here. All in all, I think my control is getting better. To anyone who has used the metronome in their speed bag workouts, I’d be interested in hearing about your routines.

Sorry for the long post.

Hope to see you at Speed Bag 2010.

[paranday]

• I can set a slower tempo for learning a new technique...

I use it as you say, set at a slow tempo for a particular technique, then gradually speed up the tempo over time.

I also have found if I'm having one of those days when nothing is coming together, a few minutes doing the basic rhythm with a metronome can get me back on track.

The metronome is a strict teacher. The first few times you use it you might think it is always wrong, but over time you realize it was correct all along.

[Speedbag]

I haven’t posted anything related to my speed bag training in a while. In my last training-type post, I put out an SOS for help on practicing the R-ROLL. Thanks, Alan, for your help. I definitely improved my R-ROLL by practicing your exercises. Some days are better than others, but all are more consistent than they were before.

Glad to hear it. R-ROLL's are pesky critters.

Lately, here’s what I’ve been working on. I’ve been reading here and there on the forum about how the speed bag should be thought of as a control bag and the importance of regulating the speed and force of your punches. “Slowly and smoothly at first, speed develops in time,” seems to be the motto of all those who speed bag so well. So I decided to incorporate hitting to a metronome into my workouts. I use an online metronome on my laptop (www.webmetronome.com). I start out at around 100 bpm for a 3-minute warm up. I set it to a 4-beat cycle throughout. By the way, I use Tim’s workout timer to define the lengths of my rounds and rest periods. It’s the best. I have both windows displayed on my screen side by side.

This is actually a great way to train to maintain a steady, constant beat rhythm in your punching. I have "metrone" .mp3's also, as well as some repetitive steady drum rides that I loop over and over to punch to. I call this "Cadence Punching" because you can start throwing off all kinds of improvised bag beats in 3-12 punch grooves, some that I call "syncopated rhythms", because certain punches will always fall "on the beat" if you get your punching speed right. Spinsmashpop and myself did a lot of timing each other with drum sticks in the speed bag truck, keeping steady time for the bag beat. the Truck was Rocking a time or two. It's a great way to work out, particularly if too much stuff in the music distracts you. (See Below)

You might ask, “Why don’t you just hit to some music?” Here’s why the metronome seems to work well for me at this time:

• A metronome is a basic, no-frills time reference. No style, no feel, just even time.
• I can set a slower tempo for learning a new technique, another one for a technique that seems to be coming along, another tempo for an entire x-round workout, or I can set it so that each round gets slightly ramped up in tempo until the final round, which is hit at a cool-down tempo, etc. I’m sure there are many more uses.
• Although I can punch drum a Basic Rhythm pretty well in slow to moderate tempos, I sometimes get carried away by the music and try to do something rhythmically hip, but don’t have the bag skills to pull it off, so my “great idea” never gets realized.
• There are other times when I get something going on a song that I like, and the music ends just when I was warming up into it. A metronome ticks until you shut it off.

I’ve been experimenting by placing the strong hit the on different parts of the beat and then straightening it out, while having either the lead or second fist performing the stronger hit. Also, I’m practicing varying the speed and force of my hits so that I can come out with different rhythms using the same technique. In about a week, I should be recording my first video so I can share with the forum the skills and concepts that are new to me. As a novice speed bagger [p. 56 of Speed Bag Bible], I’m flying by the seat of my pants here. All in all, I think my control is getting better. To anyone who has used the metronome in their speed bag workouts, I’d be interested in hearing about your routines.

Sorry for the long post.

Hope to see you at Speed Bag 2010.

I'd like to hear different rhythms with the same technique. I don't know if you mean different accent patterns in the technique, which I have normally said is almost impossible. For instance, on a Triple Elbow Strike, the third part (last fist) will always be as loud or louder then the lead and second contact. At least in all my combinations it is. I suppose you could accent the lead or middle hit more than the last, but I've never done it repetitively. Of course, I have been amazed lately at what others do - SO.................. Bring it on!

I look forward to your video (and audio).

[Biff]

Thanks, 88, for the link to the on-line metronome. I tried it out yesterday, and let's just say, I don't have as much consistent rhythm as I thought. LOL

I experimented with various speeds, and it certainly was "educational." Not a muscian, I would love to learn how to punch in what Alan calls "syncopated rhythms." I'm just not sure if that could ever happen!!!!

I hope to learn more about it during Speed BAG 2010. (Listeneing AK?)

This is another way to spend time under the board in a controlled session. It's definitely going to help me. Again thanks.

[paranday]

Thanks, 88, for the link to the on-line metronome. I tried it out yesterday, and let's just say, I don't have as much consistent rhythm as I thought. LOL.

You said it, bro. That's exactly what it taught me. I didn't like the metronome at first, but I found that after a number of sessions the frustration went away. A little metronome practice now and again is something that can be enjoyed.

[Speedbag]

You said it, bro. That's exactly what it taught me. I didn't like the metronome at first, but I found that after a number of sessions the frustration went away. A little metronome practice now and again is something that can be enjoyed.

You bet. It can break the monotony and remember, the brain likes to "sync", or line up with, an externally repetitive auditory rhythm.

Thanks, 88, for the link to the on-line metronome. I tried it out yesterday, and let's just say, I don't have as much consistent rhythm as I thought. LOL

I experimented with various speeds, and it certainly was "educational." Not a muscian, I would love to learn how to punch in what Alan calls "syncopated rhythms." I'm just not sure if that could ever happen!!!!

I hope to learn more about it during Speed BAG 2010. (Listeneing AK?)

This is another way to spend time under the board in a controlled session. It's definitely going to help me. Again thanks.

This is a video I edited for you on sycnopated "Cadence Punching", from one of my own workouts. I didn't do this as a "teaching video", but just playing around with some new tunes I heard from Chrystal Method, which has a lot of low key melodies (just tonal notes more or less) backed by kicking drum patterns that are repetitive. Not a lot of drum variety, just predictably repetitive. I looped the distinctive drum patterns at the begininngs of the two songs included. The first is a bit slower pace than the second. All the bag work is what I call syncopated rhythms, with freestyle improvisions mixed in. Listen for how the bag beats just sync with the cadence of the repetitive metronome like drums.

For those with insight, look for the 5-1 (front and reverse), 5-1 while changing sides, 3-3, FCP ' ' RSP ' ' FDP, F-Rollx3 ' ' RSP ' '...repeat
(or D-TES ' ' RSP ' ' ...repeat). etc. They happen all throughout the clip. Along with a few other more complicated combinations with single and double fist pass-throughs and FDP ' ' RDP double time.

[Eighty-Eight]

Alan,
Regarding “different rhythms using the same technique,” one example is the way I adjust the punching speed of three techniques:
1. I’ve been practicing starting a four-rebound F-ROLL on the 4th beat of a four-beat cycle. Rhythmically, it comes out like an eighth-note triplet on the fourth count leading into a new measure. Then, at the same tempo, I slightly increase the punch speed to start a five-rebound F-ROLL on the 4th beat of a four-beat cycle. This comes out like four 16th notes on the fourth count leading into a new measure. So long as the tempo is not more than I can handle, I can squeak out a six-rebound F-ROLL on the 4th beat of a four-beat cycle. This sounds like a quintuplet on the fourth count leading into a new measure. Once I start to feel comfortable with these, I try to link the rhythms together in different combinations. In other words, I’ll do a four-rebound F-ROLL followed by a five-rebound F-ROLL (rhythmically, an eight-note triplet followed by four 16th notes, etc).

2. I’ve also been experimenting with a similar idea using the Full Figure-8 Link and Splitting the Fists. Once I get the metronome going, I’ll do a few Front Circle Punches on the beat, say, with my RH. Then I’ll do a [8] so that the RH hits are two to the beat. Rhythmically, the hits sound like two eighth notes against the metronome click. In my next exercise, I’ll start out the same way with the FCPs, but this time I slightly decrease the speed of my [8]’s so now my RH hits sound like a “3 against 2” when compared to the metronome.

3. Another venture: Timing the speed of my Front and Reverse Double Punches so that I can displace them with reference to the beat. I practice making either the first or the second fist land on the beat. The fist landing on the beat is the louder of the two.


Currently I’m trying to combine the exercises in all three paragraphs. To that extent, this is what I meant by “different rhythms using the same technique.” Keep in mind that I don’t do any of this at lightning speed. At this point, we’re talking a range of 90 -112 bpm on the metronome. I keep hearing “control, control, control . . .”

By the way, your video is incredible. Whew! You make it look so easy.

[sparrky37]

WOW

This is great stuff! I got a step it up. I thought it would be a good thing me learning to play the drums and punchdrumming at the same time,but I think it's kinda slowin me down in a sense. In the long run when it all comes together it's gonna be awesome.

Great topic 88 thanks.

[spinsmashpop]

Bagging to a metronome is killer! It is a great way to refine all your skills. To lock up to a metronome and go from combo to combo shows total control.
ALan Kahn is the master at this, no doubt. He'll hip you up to it more than anyone. And he'll do it in the most methodical of fashions.
I end up talking all drummy and stuff and side track off into cool drum licks and all that...
Just watch out for the "metro-gnomes".... the little buggers will try to loosen up the swivel screws and deflate your bags!! haha...
BAG ON!

[metaldad]

Thanks for a great topic Eighty Eight! I should have been doing this a while ago. I have a battery opertated one that isn't very loud but it does have a headphone jack so I'll give this a whirl...........as long as the "metro-gnomes" stayu away that is!

[atgatt]

You bet. It can break the monotony and remember, the brain likes to "sync", or line up with, an externally repetitive auditory rhythm.

I MUST be really boring. All I do is hit the bag with "boxing hits", nothing fancy, and I have yet to ever find it monotonous in all the combined years that I hit. Granted, I play music at the same time.

That being said, I SURE am glad that Alan and others decided to make it more exciting for them so I could enjoy the vids like the one Alan just posted in this thread. It's one thing to hit fancy, it's another to time it to the beat of music like Alan devoted so much of his life doing, and it shows. Bravo, Alan!

Alan, I sure wish I big rock group (hint Spin) would use segments of your bagging and mix them in their music videos. It would add so much showing the beat with action and bring on a wave of new baggers. JMHO

[paranday]

another free metronome

Here's a free downloadable metronome, just a 24K file size:

http://www.pinkandaint.com/weirdmet.shtml

Various sounds are available, useful for finding ones that cut through the sound the bag makes. Of course, you can accent different beats. Really fast tempos are available. Something tells me the custom beats per measure feature could be useful for certain bagging patterns.

As for the ridiculous 1000 beats per minute maximum tempo, I guess this metronome can be set fast enough even for Skunk.