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  • A question about the FDP.

    Hello everyone,

    I learned hitting the bag with Alans Bible. On page 23, where he explains the FDP, it says: 'It is performed by circling both fists into the bag almost at the same time. The motion is similar to throwing a left and right FCP together, or a left FCP and right FSP.'

    So, from what I understood, one has two options:

    option a) (FCP) ' (FCP) or
    option b) (FCP) ' (FSP).

    So when I read that the first time, (about a year ago now) I tried both options a few times and then decided to go for option b), as for me this movement seemed to be more natural to me at this point. And that's what I went with. Always, when I throw a FDP, the second punch is a FSP. And it all went fine.

    However, I recently started with the 'advanced skills and combinations'-chapter, where advanced punching is introduced. Consider, for example, Exercise #2 on page 121:

    L-R *R
    (FDP) ' (FCP). Here, in this exercise, it seems inconvenient for the right fist in the (FDP) to be a (FSP) (not impossible tho), as one has to move the fist and shift the weight very quickly.

    Moreover, it appears that, when I watch videos of people that outperform me on the speedbag, they all opted for option a).

    So what option did you chose when you started bagging? And if you did chose option b), like me, did you dismiss it for option a) at some point?
    Last edited by AlfredGaebeli; 06-29-2020, 12:21 PM.

  • #2
    Now that is a great question!

    If you have a YouTube account and would like to PM me, we can trade videos and go over it.

    Comment


    • #3
      ...don’t you use both in different situations or variations? I just got to the bag and tested how I do as a beginner. I use both ways in different situations. Can’t even exactly tell when using which option. Think I use FCP-FCP most when I link into a R-Roll, a RDP, or another linking including the second fist, when I link only with the first fist I often use FCP-FSP.

      Comment


      • #4
        Only for the F-Roll. Otherwise exclusively with the front straight. I also use the FSP for rotating the fists.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AlfredGaebeli View Post
          Hello everyone,

          I learned hitting the bag with Alans Bible. On page 23, where he explains the FDP, it says: 'It is performed by circling both fists into the bag almost at the same time. The motion is similar to throwing a left and right FCP together, or a left FCP and right FSP.'

          So, from what I understood, one has two options:

          option a) (FCP) ' (FCP) or
          option b) (FCP) ' (FSP).


          So when I read that the first time, (about a year ago now) I tried both options a few times and then decided to go for option b), as for me this movement seemed to be more natural to me at this point. And that's what I went with. Always, when I throw a FDP, the second punch is a FSP. And it all went fine.

          However, I recently started with the 'advanced skills and combinations'-chapter, where advanced punching is introduced. Consider, for example, Exercise #2 on page 121:

          L-R *R
          (FDP) ' (FCP). Here, in this exercise, it seems inconvenient for the right fist in the (FDP) to be a (FSP) (not impossible tho), as one has to move the fist and shift the weight very quickly.

          Moreover, it appears that, when I watch videos of people that outperform me on the speedbag, they all opted for option a).

          So what option did you chose when you started bagging? And if you did chose option b), like me, did you dismiss it for option a) at some point?
          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++

          Hey AlfredGaebeli

          Sorry for the late arrive. Somehow I missed this post back in May....

          You are exactly right (..or I was..) That it can be the Front Double Punch (FDP) has two basic fist positions (1) FCP ' FCP or (2) FCP ' FSP.

          There is also a (3) FSP ' FSP but I find that virtually useless in functional speed bagging.

          To use one or the other is not an "either-or" situation, it's a matter of WHEN you will use one or the other....and if you get any good on the speed bag you WILL use both all the time.

          Your question is the position of the "2nd fist", and the contact point of FCP position (the pinkie) and in FSP position, the front of the fist. These will both occur without you thinking about it.

          Consider a Front Fist Roll. FCP ' FCP ' FCP ' FCP ' FCP ' FCP ' FCP..... ANY TWO of fists in the F-Roll can be a FDP, and notice the fist position is always FCP. this is the easiest to link though bag.

          Now consider the Outward Triple Elbow Strike ( O-TES ). This technique is a E-F ' F contact and without though that Last fist will most probably be a FSP position. That (to me...) is the most natural. Sure I could use FCP, but it's awkward in the movement and (for me) not necessary. You will also see the within the Out-&-In Fourway Elbow Strike (O-I 4 way) (page 73) you will have a FDP within that technique in a FCP ' FSP position.

          So...What is the difference? Initially, especially for a begginer, is LINKING thru the bag to RSP. It is much easier to do that in the FCP position for this allows the elbow to just extend out and back without altering the fist position. The key part of that is the RSP, which is easier to get to after a FCP. Sure you can get to it after FSP but it takes a subtle fist change of position behind the bag. Remember, as the FRONT of the fist hits the bag your elbow is more or less "behind the fist" and when you do FCP the elbow is already out to the side of fist. Now with a FSP if you hit straight and just extend your fist all the way out...notice your forearm follows straight and the elbow ends up pretty much "under" the bag, which is no place for the elbow to be...There is a move (called "the rocking chair) where you do FSP ' ' RSP but the RSP actually hits "the back" of the hand...My mentor did that a lot. I personally find it awkward and slower then "regular linking" However it is possible.

          My suggestion would be to find when either one or the other is useful for you in your own combinations. For instance, When I'm going to emphasize a punch (hit slightly harder) I will use the FSP position. When I enter a Front-to-back Split-Fist combo I will almost Always use the FSP, for in the combination it is much more natural to FSP ' ' RSP vs FCP ' ' RSP

          With practice most learn to link From FSP to RSP pretty quick. Each Bagger has their own way of doing it. For fun, try doing a double fist split Combo (page 136) and notice how I always use the FSP. The secret to "double fist split" (which is when you have your hands split front and back of the bag... and then you basically change their positions....say the right is behind (RSP) and left if in front (FSP.), and within two punches, they have changed side. with left behind and right in front. The "secret" to his combo is know that (1) both fist will hit and pass through and (2) the second fist will hit twice in a row to the double bounce pattern the same.

          For instance...Your right fist hits the front (FSP) and passes to reverse, your left fist hits behind (RSP) and passes to the front. Now they have changed side in those two punches...BUT, the left fist (2nd fist in this demo) has to hit again from the front to maintain the two rebound pattern It goes RSP ' ' FCP or
          RSP ' ' FCP.... but it has to hit x2 in a row. I find myself always using FSP in this combo... I know several great baggers that do it different. Zach Ruffo "Speed Bag Skunk" is pretty good and he almost always use FCP position. No biggie, it just looks different.

          So.... that's why I showed both fist positions. You will probably learn to use them both and never know it...

          I hope that answers your question!
          Last edited by Speedbag; 07-13-2020, 10:06 PM.
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