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  • 1st post and a short video

    http://youtu.be/Lz4iwLEEgcY

    Last edited by Hoosierbagger; 05-09-2014, 06:01 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post


    Looking very good. all done with nice control. I also see a cool combination I can't remember EVER seeing before, and Outward-Triple Elbow Strike to and Inward-Double Elbow Strike with one rebound inbetween. The hard part (and most unique in the movement..) is the Front Straight Punch to an opposite Arm Inward Double Elbow. The tough part is this had opposite arm Front straight punches following each other with one rebound inbetween, something which almost NEVER happens in natural speed bag punching. I can not remember seeing anybody ever do that, and that is why it stands out to me.

    Bravo. You moved the speed bag bar just a tad further, and probably didn't even know it.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Speedbag; 05-09-2014, 07:05 PM.
    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
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    • #3
      Wow, that actually is not what I was expecting. Thank you very much!

      I have been lurking around here for months looking at the videos and following the discussions. I believe I started doing that combination after you had given someone a suggestion. If I remember correctly the combo went something like o-tes'i-tes all with the same arm. The key was to double up on the trailing hand punch off of the outward triple elbow strike to lead the inward triple elbow strike. At least I think it was you.

      I actually found it easier to do away with the doubled up punch, ymmv.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post
        Wow, that actually is not what I was expecting. Thank you very much!

        I have been lurking around here for months looking at the videos and following the discussions. I believe I started doing that combination after you had given someone a suggestion. If I remember correctly the combo went something like o-tes'i-tes all with the same arm. The key was to double up on the trailing hand punch off of the outward triple elbow strike to lead the inward triple elbow strike. At least I think it was you.

        I actually found it easier to do away with the doubled up punch, ymmv.
        Great observation, but I don't see you double bumping that last fist of the O-TES (the "trailing hand" in your description.). Yes you are correct. You could do the O-TES, as you do, then double bump that last for the Inward-Triple Elbow, but that is not what you are doing. You see, when you double bump that second fist, the second "bump" would actually be pretty much in the correct position of a normal Inward-Triple, because as the first hit and rebound occurs, your fist could move just a smidge forward, and when the bag comes off the board, that fist (second bump) would contact that front side panel of the bag, (the same side as your inward elbow).. that would make that contact in a more or less FCP position. That is NOT what you are doing here, for I see your last fist hits the bag in the O-TES, then you immediately come in with an Inward-Triple Elbow Strike on "1" rebound (not a double bump). In essence, your are doing a FSP ' FSP contact with one rebound inbetween. Rarely seen on the speed bag when using the angles of these strikes.

        (* Remember: I normally see the last fist (last "third" part) of the O-TES as connecting in a FSP position, unless you are linking it to a reverse punch. So that last contact is a FSP in the Outward technique, and the fist contact in an Inward Double Elbow Strike is also a FSP of the other hand. )

        Any way, I cannot ever remember seeing this exact combination before every being done on its own, repeating each other...left lead to right lead. Good on you for that.

        Light Bulb.

        Speed Bag

        Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
        *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
        The Quest Continues...
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        THE 10th Year Reunion!

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        Comment


        • #5
          I see what you are saying. It's unusual that two straight punches from opposite arms, going in two different directions, be thrown with one rebound in between? I often lead the o-tes in this combo with a phantom fsp to make it more complicated. I'll see if I can get a video up later with that thrown in.

          The double bumps never came natural to me at least not in this combo. I found it much easier to do it the way you see it in the video.

          Last edited by Hoosierbagger; 05-09-2014, 10:32 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post
            I see what you are saying. It's unusual that two straight punches from opposite arms, going in two different directions, be thrown with one rebound in between?
            Yes, two Front Straight Punches (FSP) with opposite arms rarely occur naturally due to the angle of impact and follow through. The body position for this is awkward. Of course you can do them on purpose that way, as you are doing, but I have see that very rarely. Very similar to Speed Bag Skunk and others following a Front Circle Punch (FCP) with an Outward-Double Elbow Strike (O-DES) of the opposite arm: L_FCP ' R_O-DES.... the body position after the FCP just doesn't allow a naturally occurring Outward Elbow without altering a movement to do so. But as he and several others now demonstrate, that CAN be done, at great speed. But it is not a naturally occurring movement.

            Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post
            I often lead the o-tes in this combo with a phantom fsp to make it more complicated. I'll see if I can get a video up later with that thrown in.

            The double bumps never came natural to me at least not in this combo. I found it much easier to do it the way you see it in the video.

            I do too. I've grown to love the Phantom FSP for it can be used before and after a lot of other techniques. Try it after a RSP. Do a left Reverse Single Punch (RSP), or a R-L Reverse Double Punch (RDP). the left fist is the last to hit RSP on the bag, and as the left fist clears to the front, setting up for a Left lead outward elbow, Sneak the Right Phantom (RSP) under it.

            Who would have thought. it's a great move. You're really coming along in skill and control.
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

            THE 10th Year Reunion!

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            The Art of the Bag

            Comment


            • #7
              I do too. I've grown to love the Phantom FSP for it can be used before and after a lot of other techniques. Try it after a RSP. Do a left Reverse Single Punch (RSP), or a R-L Reverse Double Punch (RDP). the left fist is the last to hit RSP on the bag, and as the left fist clears to the front, setting up for a Left lead outward elbow, Sneak the Right Phantom (RSP) under it.
              Like this? Not sure I'm doing it right.



              Speedbagforum and speedbagcentral is such a wonderful resource. I appreciate all that you, Alan, and Tim, and all the other members have done to put this material out there for all to see. I didn't realize when I started this style of bagging how much I would enjoy it. I wouldn't call it an addiction but a very fun way to supplement my current training. I find it very relaxing after a rough day.
              Last edited by Hoosierbagger; 05-11-2014, 09:07 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post
                Like this? Not sure I'm doing it right.



                Speedbagforum and speedbagcentral is such a wonderful resource. I appreciate all that you, Alan, and Tim, and all the other members have done to put this material out there for all to see. I didn't realize when I started this style of bagging how much I would enjoy it. I wouldn't call it an addiction but a very fun way to supplement my current training. I find it very relaxing after a rough day.
                I've learned that there is not really a way to do these "Right vs Wrong", but there are ways to do them easier, and ways to do them different.

                In the combinations your doing here I would say you are certainly doing them different. Again, not right or wrong,......just different. I made a few pictures to use.

                You seem to change the way your are doing this depending on how you do the RDP. Actually, to me it looks as if your changing the order of contact in front of the bag after the RDP. I (just my opinion here..) believe in this combination (RDP ' ' phantom FSP ' O-DES) that is easier to do the FSP with the lead hand of the RDP, and then let the second fist of the RDP hit the bag, and bring that fist to the opposite ear, which is the correct alignment for the Outward Elbow strike. The lead fist of the RDP just connects and hangs at the side ready to come in as a FSP. Basically, you turn your wrist and aim the front of your fist to the bag. That's it. After the second fist hits in the RDP, as it clears the bag )to go over the ear) the other fist can start moving forward as the FSP. Actually they kind of move together, one going toward the bag (FSP), one going away (RSP).

                But that is not how you are doing it. Again, you are not doing it wrong, but you are doing it different, and in the way you are doing it I would suggest you are not really hitting the "phantom" punch under the raised elbow as much as you are doing the Outward Elbow "over" the arm that already did the FSP.

                Note in your pictures. #1: You do a L-R Reverse double punch and at frame "3" both of your fists are now in the front of the bag. To me, the right fist in this picture (last fist to hit in RDP) should be up over your left ear, allowing the left fist to sneak a FSP underneath. But notice in frame 4 you are moving your LEFT fist over the right ear. While you do this, you do a Right FSP, which you believe is phantom punch under that left arm but it really is not "under" for it connects and is finished before the left arm is all the way up. Then you do the outward Elbow over that arm. Another unusual occurrence in this combo as you are doing it is: The Right Fist is the second fist in the RDP (frame-2), and then it repositions to do the FSP after two rebounds (Frame-4). Rarely, if Ever, have I seen a Reverse Single Punch (RSP) (...each fist contact in a RDP is in fact just a RSP. that is the fist position at contact.) followed by a FSP of the same arm. Normally the other arm (lead fist) could easily come back to a split fist FSP, but do a Right RSP ' ' Right FSP is weird. very different fist position than the FCP.

                Anyway, in picture #2, You do the same thing, just rotated to the other side because the RDP is in a different order. Notice in Frame 2, the second fist (RSP contact) of the technique is your left fist. In Frame 3 you follow with a FSP with that same left fist, while the right arm is crossing your body to set up for the Outward Elbow in frame #5. The untrained eye might think that FSP with the left fist was a phantom punch, but in fact it connects before the elbow is "up". You did that a lot in this video.

                But.... Sometimes you do it as it more naturally occurs. Go to 0:45 seconds, which is into the slow motion. at :46 you do a RDP in R-L, and the left fist goes over the right ear, and the right fist goes to FSP phantom underneath. Perfect. ...oops, the combo before it (:40sec), and then after it, at :53 seconds you change back to the "different" way. Since you've done it both ways using the same fist order in the RDP, (note...46sec and 53sec you do a R-L RDP), so the combo should be the same in the front, but you rotated the front part after :53 seconds. That tells me you are concentrating on using different elbows in the front of the bag or doing different FSP, and altering the natural flow of the movements. Again, not wrong, just different.

                As a practice combination. You might do some RSP ' ' FSP split fist, the bring the RSP to the front, over the ear for outward elbow, and let the other fist do a Phantom FSP underneath it.

                Then advance it by one fist. Change the combo, so you do RSP ' ' FSP, a few times, then let the front fist link behind, do a RDP, bring both to the front and *at the point that the second fist of the RDP hits the bag, it's the same combination you already did. That is a RSP, bring it to the opposite ear, and do a phantom FSP under it. The fact that the phantom fist just returned from behind the bag doesn't make any difference. It just gives you a bit more fist control.

                Hope it helps. Good luck figuring this out!
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Speedbag; 05-11-2014, 11:12 AM.
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                THE 10th Year Reunion!

                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

                Comment


                • #9
                  I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. I am sure I can get this down the way you describe it. Is there a smooth way to alternate the movement from side to side? I think that is where I was having to concentrate the most and losing it.

                  Never mind, Alan, I think I see a couple of different ways to make the transition from side to side. Just need more practice, I think.
                  Last edited by Hoosierbagger; 05-11-2014, 06:28 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Anyway, in picture #2, You do the same thing, just rotated to the other side because the RDP is in a different order. Notice in Frame 2, the second fist (RSP contact) of the technique is your left fist. In Frame 3 you follow with a FSP with that same left fist, while the right arm is crossing your body to set up for the Outward Elbow in frame #5. The untrained eye might think that FSP with the left fist was a phantom punch, but in fact it connects before the elbow is "up". You did that a lot in this video.

                    But.... Sometimes you do it as it more naturally occurs. Go to 0:45 seconds, which is into the slow motion. at :46 you do a RDP in R-L, and the left fist goes over the right ear, and the right fist goes to FSP phantom underneath. Perfect. ...oops, the combo before it (:40sec), and then after it, at :53 seconds you change back to the "different" way. Since you've done it both ways using the same fist order in the RDP, (note...46sec and 53sec you do a R-L RDP), so the combo should be the same in the front, but you rotated the front part after :53 seconds. That tells me you are concentrating on using different elbows in the front of the bag or doing different FSP, and altering the natural flow of the movements. Again, not wrong, just different.

                    As a practice combination. You might do some RSP ' ' FSP split fist, the bring the RSP to the front, over the ear for outward elbow, and let the other fist do a Phantom FSP underneath it.

                    Then advance it by one fist. Change the combo, so you do RSP ' ' FSP, a few times, then let the front fist link behind, do a RDP, bring both to the front and *at the point that the second fist of the RDP hits the bag, it's the same combination you already did. That is a RSP, bring it to the opposite ear, and do a phantom FSP under it. The fact that the phantom fist just returned from behind the bag doesn't make any difference. It just gives you a bit more fist control.
                    I played around with this for an hour or two tonight and this is what I was able to come up with.

                    I am able to do the combination like you describe L_R_RDP''L-FSP'R-O-TES.
                    When I want to alternate sides I switch the order slightly to L-R-RDP''R-FSP'L-OTES. I could also do the combo as L-R-RDP''L-FSP'R-O-DES. It was hard for me to NOT add in the last fist strike for a triple elbow but it did leave me in good position to alternate the combination. The urge to add in the third strike kept tripping me up on that one. Along with split fist, RSP, RDP, I was able to do L_R_RDP''L-FSP'R-O-TES following R-roll, SSP, and SDP. I played around with a few additional ways to transition from doing it on the left to the right side of my body. Very fun and smooth definitely adding it onto my list of combinations.

                    Did another video of my attempt to sneak that fsp under the elbow strike a little better. Threw in a few alternating RSP''FSP'O-I-4WAYS at the end.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hoosierbagger View Post
                      I played around with this for an hour or two tonight and this is what I was able to come up with.

                      I am able to do the combination like you describe L_R_RDP''L-FSP'R-O-TES.
                      When I want to alternate sides I switch the order slightly to L-R-RDP''R-FSP'L-OTES. I could also do the combo as L-R-RDP''L-FSP'R-O-DES. It was hard for me to NOT add in the last fist strike for a triple elbow but it did leave me in good position to alternate the combination.
                      Don't have a lot of time this am, but I would suggest that the fastest way to do what your asking (rotate the lead of the front combination to the other side or arm) is simply to rotate the fist order of the RDP. Instead of coming back on the RDP using the last fist to pass through
                      (L-R_FDP '' R-L_RDP), just rotate that fist order, let the lead fist (first fist through) to come back and lead. (L-R _FDP ' ' L-R_RDP). Changing the fist order of a RDP always rotates the lead of the next front technique.

                      Another way to rotate the lead, slightly more advanced, is to use to change the Reverse Double Punch (RDP) in that link to a Reverse-Side Double Punch (R-SDP). This will change the second fist of a RDP, normally a RSP to a Side Single Punch (SSP), and automatically rotate the lead since you changed arms of the second fist coming to the front after two rebounds.

                      (*see Speed Bag Bible, chapter 9, page 103).
                      Speed Bag

                      Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                      *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                      The Quest Continues...
                      Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                      THE 10th Year Reunion!

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