U-Bolt Swivel action

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  • Speedbag
    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

    • Feb 2006
    • 7107

    U-Bolt Swivel action

    This is just a close up review of the action of a U-Bolt swivel, how it works and some possible issues that occur, as shown here on the Speedbagcentral.com swivel page

    All these stills were made from an earlier video by PunchDrummer at a video link below, and I use it because it has a clear closeup of the
    U-Bolt swivel.

    I think the "normal" or best position for the U-bolt swivel is when the open "U" is facing the front, toward the puncher. It doesn't matter if it is a wide or Narrow "U", depending on the make and model, The puncher is looking at the open "U". This how it sits most of the time when it is being used. My own experience tells me this as does watching many speed bag video's of people using this type of swivel. the picture on the left shows this configuration. from the side, we don't see the "U", the puncher does, and when the bag is struck you can clearly see the entire "U" moves with the bag (green line angle) and the bag maintains firm contact with the "U".

    In the next two pictures, (middle is front punch, picture on right is a reverse punch) you can clearly see that the "U" is facing toward the side, not at the puncher, and his point of view would be looking at the side bar of the "U", not the open face. At this point when he contacts the bag, the bag will slide in the direction of the punch and depending on the actual contact point on the bag in that rebound, may react even further. IF the contact point was ON the belly or a bit above the belly, this would apply force downward, driving the bag a bit downward, maintaining friction and connection to the bar, so the bag would just slide a bit on the bar. But if the contact point is a bit Under the belly, this could raise the bag up and make it float off the bar while it is sliding sideways. IMO, when this happens it changes the bag speed just a bit for the bag must reestablish connection with the bar or it will straight to the ground. (if this was a ball hook, it would have launched off the hook). The bag reconnects to the bar and will then react to the next punch, which will also depend on the position of the "U" in that connection.

    I only bring this up as a point of consideration for bag action and successful non-stop punching. This issue happens many many times on a U-Bolt swivel, and most of the time the puncher recovers or keeps going and it was never an issue. The puncher may sense a moment of malaise, that sense that somethings off, but the next punch corrects it and you keep going.

    However, it can be an important point in YOUR progress, for if you keep having problems with a certain combinations that contain strikes from different sides, or are struggling to maintain control It just could be these slight alterations in the bag action due to the U-Bolt. For me it happens most of the time with a lot of combinations that include side punches, for if the "U" is facing me correctly, then a side punch will hit the bar side of the "U", and I anticipate the bag will slide on the bar. (unless I have taped the bag down to the center, which is why I do that).

    Anyway, when I reveiw many video's of people punching, I can tell you many (not all) of their control problems often related to this.

    I will use my buddy Punchdrummer as an example. A great speed bagger, trains often and is picking up many of the more complicated combinations. However he still struggles a bit with a wondering contact point on the bag, I suspect due to his arm swinging motion, but may slightly miss-hit the bag maybe 10% of the time. Most of the time it's no big deal and he pulls off the combination he is attempting, however, when he does miss, and I say this honestly, it is almost always due to the U-Bolt swivel, which clearly goes all over the place in this video and you can find many examples where the bag is either sliding or floating off the bar.

    Of course you may also struggle on your contact points and bag control on a ballhook, but I'm willing to be almost all errors made on ballhooks are due to the bagger, not the swivel action or construction.



    found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtppe4yoOA8
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Speedbag; 05-18-2013, 04:32 PM.
    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
    The Quest Continues...
    Hoping for another Gathering...


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    The Art of the Bag
  • Speedbag
    Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

    • Feb 2006
    • 7107

    #2
    Originally posted by ventanakaz
    hey are you picking on PunchDrummer ;-) someone needs to send him a nice ballhook swivel...
    Nah, we talk often. Great guy and dedicated bagger. Wants to get better all the time, and a fellow Punch Drummer also. I think he has a ballhook laying around his place somewhere. I was actually "picking on" the U-bolt swivel. which I often see drives people crazy ....and they think it's them.
    Speed Bag

    Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
    *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
    The Quest Continues...
    Hoping for another Gathering...


    sigpic

    The Art of the Bag

    Comment

    • fedora
      Speed Bag Guru
      • Dec 2012
      • 471

      #3
      I tried the U-bolt when I first started up again back in December. Front to back worked great, but as soon as I tried to do hits from other directions the bag was all over the place. I know Punchdrummer and Scissors hands use them and they look really good but I could never make it work.

      fedora

      Comment

      • PunchDrummer
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 247

        #4
        I’m honored to be an example – one way or another!

        I wasn’t attempting it in that video, but sometimes I DO practice control by intentionally trying to hit the bag so it consistently slides on the “U” (like example 2 & 3). I keep a little silicone on the "U" bar so the bag doesn’t squeak, and it slides nicely. This is the kind of entertainment that happens to float my boat, and it’s not fear of success or failure on a BH. I’m taking my time and having fun.

        Momentary hopefully relevant tangent:
        I took piano lessons for years, hated practicing when I was told I had to, and I fumbled through them only because it was fun to play popular music for my friends in grade-school assembly, then in the "Ratskeller" in college, the lobbies of Vegas, New York, or any hotel with a piano when I visit(ed) with friends, on business, to ski, chill, etc. - both as a young adult, and now as an older guy. The "social" rewards were, well, freakin’ fantastic, but (at the time) it was near impossible to learn to be able to read music and perfectly play it back by wrote, in real time. The only way I could figure it out was by hearing it first, and putting in a lot of time into staring at those written notes. I also needed to know, in detail, how the piano was put together, it’s limits, and learn it from an alternative perspective. If it wasn’t fun (IMHO), it was a chore. There are a lot of people who learn best that way – it’s a blessing and curse. Not lazy (although it's been a while since working the piano, but with a little practice, it comes right back). Broke and.... wrench my own bikes, plumb my own toilets, repair my own computers, fixed (mostly Conair) hair driers (in college for $3.00 and a date), etc. Have to break it and fix it to know it. Speed Bag mentioned soon….

        One of the things my piano teacher MADE me do was play classical music "at speed" without making a sound on the strings. The goal was to press each key with just enough pressure to engage the hammer, without having the hammer hit the string – or lift off the pad at all. (Try this on decent mechanical piano and you’ll feel it and understand (and then try some acceptable clatterless fist-rolling, double-punches, phantom + O-D 4-way on your bag without hitting the drum). The goal was to hone and sharpen control (and maintain humility as well). I’m no virtuoso or performer by any means, but you get the idea. I’m emulating the way I was taught to learn something worthwhile, and I love the Speed Bag more than the piano (and even though most chicks don’t "get it", the cool ones do ). To me, the mishits and false rebounds are part of the fun – especially when I play with hands-up and alternate posture, which really isn’t video-worthy yet.
        End Tangent:

        Alan and I have been having a little fun with it since I was fortunate-enough to find him online, but he is absolutely right, and I privately conceded that a while back. He deserves to maintain his point, and I concede publically for those who don’t have the desire to screw-around like I have, that the dynamics and flexibility of a Ball-Book Swivel are second-to-none, especially when it comes to learning and enjoying Alan’s "Bible Style" punching (just wait until I release my Neodymium-and rubber-band-based, Electro-Magnetic, Double-Reverse Polarity, Silent Swivel).

        The horrible truth is that my piano teacher drove me crazy, but it was strangely fun, and I need a to clanklessly punch as I have to find that insane happy place again. lol
        I’m having fun folks – and I like sharing it when I can.

        You can see by the picture I've attached way, way, way, below that I own and play on a Ball-hook swivel (which is fine so far for my indoor setup), I do have fun with all my swivels, but pay attention to Alan – he understands the nuances better than anybody.
        OK – thanks for playing and for the comments in my "Control the Lace" video thread. I'm working on controlling the lace with the BH (damn lopsided bags)


        Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
        This is just a close up review of the action of a U-Bolt swivel, how it works and some possible issues that occur, as shown here on the Speedbagcentral.com swivel page

        All these stills were made from an earlier video by PunchDrummer at a video link below, and I use it because it has a clear closeup of the
        U-Bolt swivel.

        I think the "normal" or best position for the U-bolt swivel is when the open "U" is facing the front, toward the puncher. It doesn't matter if it is a wide or Narrow "U", depending on the make and model, The puncher is looking at the open "U". This how it sits most of the time when it is being used. My own experience tells me this as does watching many speed bag video's of people using this type of swivel. the picture on the left shows this configuration. from the side, we don't see the "U", the puncher does, and when the bag is struck you can clearly see the entire "U" moves with the bag (green line angle) and the bag maintains firm contact with the "U".

        In the next two pictures, (middle is front punch, picture on right is a reverse punch) you can clearly see that the "U" is facing toward the side, not at the puncher, and his point of view would be looking at the side bar of the "U", not the open face. At this point when he contacts the bag, the bag will slide in the direction of the punch and depending on the actual contact point on the bag in that rebound, may react even further. IF the contact point was ON the belly or a bit above the belly, this would apply force downward, driving the bag a bit downward, maintaining friction and connection to the bar, so the bag would just slide a bit on the bar. But if the contact point is a bit Under the belly, this could raise the bag up and make it float off the bar while it is sliding sideways. IMO, when this happens it changes the bag speed just a bit for the bag must reestablish connection with the bar or it will straight to the ground. (if this was a ball hook, it would have launched off the hook). The bag reconnects to the bar and will then react to the next punch, which will also depend on the position of the "U" in that connection.

        I only bring this up as a point of consideration for bag action and successful non-stop punching. This issue happens many many times on a U-Bolt swivel, and most of the time the puncher recovers or keeps going and it was never an issue. The puncher may sense a moment of malaise, that sense that somethings off, but the next punch corrects it and you keep going.

        However, it can be an important point in YOUR progress, for if you keep having problems with a certain combinations that contain strikes from different sides, or are struggling to maintain control It just could be these slight alterations in the bag action due to the U-Bolt. For me it happens most of the time with a lot of combinations that include side punches, for if the "U" is facing me correctly, then a side punch will hit the bar side of the "U", and I anticipate the bag will slide on the bar. (unless I have taped the bag down to the center, which is why I do that).

        Anyway, when I reveiw many video's of people punching, I can tell you many (not all) of their control problems often related to this.

        I will use my buddy Punchdrummer as an example. A great speed bagger, trains often and is picking up many of the more complicated combinations. However he still struggles a bit with a wondering contact point on the bag, I suspect due to his arm swinging motion, but may slightly miss-hit the bag maybe 10% of the time. Most of the time it's no big deal and he pulls off the combination he is attempting, however, when he does miss, and I say this honestly, it is almost always due to the U-Bolt swivel, which clearly goes all over the place in this video and you can find many examples where the bag is either sliding or floating off the bar.

        Of course you may also struggle on your contact points and bag control on a ballhook, but I'm willing to be almost all errors made on ballhooks are due to the bagger, not the swivel action or construction.



        found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtppe4yoOA8
        Attached Files
        Last edited by PunchDrummer; 05-20-2013, 01:42 AM.

        Comment

        • Speedbag
          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

          • Feb 2006
          • 7107

          #5
          Originally posted by PunchDrummer View Post
          I’m honored to be an example – one way or another!

          I wasn’t attempting it in that video, but sometimes I DO practice control by intentionally trying to hit the bag so it consistently slides on the “U” (like example 2 & 3). I keep a little silicone on the "U" bar so the bag doesn’t squeak, and it slides nicely. This is the kind of entertainment that happens to float my boat, and it’s not fear of success or failure on a BH. I’m taking my time and having fun.

          Momentary hopefully relevant tangent:
          I took piano lessons for years, hated practicing when I was told I had to, and I fumbled through them only because it was fun to play popular music for my friends in grade-school assembly, then in the "Ratskeller" in college, the lobbies of Vegas, New York, or any hotel with a piano when I visit(ed) with friends, on business, to ski, chill, etc. - both as a young adult, and now as an older guy. The "social" rewards were, well, freakin’ fantastic, but (at the time) it was near impossible to learn to be able to read music and perfectly play it back by wrote, in real time. The only way I could figure it out was by hearing it first, and putting in a lot of time into staring at those written notes. I also needed to know, in detail, how the piano was put together, it’s limits, and learn it from an alternative perspective. If it wasn’t fun (IMHO), it was a chore. There are a lot of people who learn best that way – it’s a blessing and curse. Not lazy (although it's been a while since working the piano, but with a little practice, it comes right back). Broke and.... wrench my own bikes, plumb my own toilets, repair my own computers, fixed (mostly Conair) hair driers (in college for $3.00 and a date), etc. Have to break it and fix it to know it. Speed Bag mentioned soon….

          One of the things my piano teacher MADE me do was play classical music "at speed" without making a sound on the strings. The goal was to press each key with just enough pressure to engage the hammer, without having the hammer hit the string – or lift off the pad at all. (Try this on decent mechanical piano and you’ll feel it and understand (and then try some acceptable clatterless fist-rolling, double-punches, phantom + O-D 4-way on your bag without hitting the drum). The goal was to hone and sharpen control (and maintain humility as well). I’m no virtuoso or performer by any means, but you get the idea. I’m emulating the way I was taught to learn something worthwhile, and I love the Speed Bag more than the piano (and even though most chicks don’t "get it", the cool ones do ). To me, the mishits and false rebounds are part of the fun – especially when I play with hands-up and alternate posture, which really isn’t video-worthy yet.
          End Tangent:

          Alan and I have been having a little fun with it since I was fortunate-enough to find him online, but he is absolutely right, and I privately conceded that a while back. He deserves to maintain his point, and I concede publically for those who don’t have the desire to screw-around like I have, that the dynamics and flexibility of a Ball-Book Swivel are second-to-none, especially when it comes to learning and enjoying Alan’s "Bible Style" punching (just wait until I release my Neodymium-and rubber-band-based, Electro-Magnetic, Double-Reverse Polarity, Silent Swivel).

          The horrible truth is that my piano teacher drove me crazy, but it was strangely fun, and I need a to clanklessly punch as I have to find that insane happy place again. lol
          I’m having fun folks – and I like sharing it when I can.

          You can see by the picture I've attached way, way, way, below that I own and play on a Ball-hook swivel (which is fine so far for my indoor setup), I do have fun with all my swivels, but pay attention to Alan – he understands the nuances better than anybody. OK – thanks for playing and for the comments in my "Control the Lace" video thread. I'm working on controlling the lace with the BH (damn lopsided bags)
          Thanks PD. I was just using that particular video to point out the real live action of a U-Bolt swivel. Sorry it just happened to be yours.

          Funny you mention "playing pianno without striking the strings" or "reboundless punching" on a speed bag. I have done that in the past with various techniques, trying to make all the parts hit softly enough without making the bag hit the board. It does take force control, to make a decent contact but softly enough to not allow the bag to hit the board. I found it much easier on my 11x8 bag and the smaller the bag the harder it is. I haven't done it lately in the last few years, but in my speed bagging obsessive 1990's I did spend some time on that.
          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
          Hoping for another Gathering...


          sigpic

          The Art of the Bag

          Comment

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