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  • Jordan
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2009
    • 234

    practice

    A little rough around the edges, but I think I'm gettin there.

  • Biff
    Speed Bag Wizard

    • Feb 2008
    • 1190

    #2
    Hey Jordan, you sure are showing great improvement over the video I saw of you and BT in the SBT. One thing that I noticed is your SDP have a lot of what Alan calls "windshield wiper" movement. I was the same way (actually worse) when I was first learning that combo.

    Watch Alan's video on the SDP and you'll see what he suggests. Correct elbow positioning and bag level are key. Most of your movement should come from the elbows to the fist, with little or none from the upper arms and shoulders. Overall, good job.

    It just takes practice and patience. And you are "getting there."

    Comment

    • spinsmashpop
      Speed Bag Wizard

      • Nov 2008
      • 1081

      #3
      Jordan..... cool! Nothin' but improvement!
      You are getting many combos together in a short time! The 4 way elbow stuff was something I always put on the back burner. But you have it going nicely!
      I would watch one thing... your tendency to open hand punch... I think it's more on your right. It would be cool if you posted a vid doing the basic FCPs and FDPs at a faster rate than the vid here. And as the bagging gets faster, the need to keep your hands up increases as does the need for sweet-spot punch accuracy. That should increase the need to keep the hands a little less open and dial in continual solid shots! The advanced punches are so fun to work on (I still get annoyed with myself for not being able to fly on some "rope pulling over the shoulder" boxing type punches, but I do work on them) but getting real comfortable with basics will only help you with the advanced stuff.
      BAG ON!

      Comment

      • The Baggist
        Vert Baggin' Master
        • May 2009
        • 229

        #4
        I think I see some wicked linking developing!!! Hey Jordan your definitely getting your combos down and going for some awesome stuff!!! I think If you work on being a little more economic with your movements you'll be flying. Like on your Outward Triple Elbow Strikes.... If you throw the last hand in the combo as a straight punch (instead of the more downward arching strike) you'll have that one in the bank. Also your Downward Double Elbow Strike....you are bringing the whole arm way up over your head, I think if when you go for it you just bring your hand up by your ear and only bring the elbow up and let the rest follow you'll have that one wrapped up also. Maybe Keep your hands and elbows up in neutral position a little more, especially when your first learning combos. I think it just comes down to being a little more compact with the movements. Hopefully Alan will post and explain a little better than I can!!! Biff and Brian also had some great advice. Your doing Great!!!
        Last edited by The Baggist; 09-28-2009, 05:06 PM. Reason: correction

        Comment

        • Jordan
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2009
          • 234

          #5
          Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
          It would be cool if you posted a vid doing the basic FCPs and FDPs at a faster rate than the vid here.


          Comment

          • spinsmashpop
            Speed Bag Wizard

            • Nov 2008
            • 1081

            #6
            Cool...that was quick..... good job
            That's a squeaky swiv, isn't it?
            So when doing this stuff, try to do the "boxer" style of a right straight punch, circling to the left coming into a Rt. FCP... then a left Straight punch circling to the right coming into a Left FCP. It really evens and balances out the form of those punches.
            And throw some tunes on and see if you can go for the length of song without any mis hits.... it ain't easy... or go for a minute of solid repetition and a moderate pace...It gets those basics engrained in your muscle memory so when you go into advanced combos, you will be able to get back in to straight punching more comfortably.....
            There is so much to attempt on the bag that at times I think I need more work on smooth, speedy basics to get up to the next level!
            But it's all cool cuz it's all baggin'!
            BAG ON!

            Comment

            • Speedbag
              Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

              • Feb 2006
              • 7109

              #7
              Originally posted by The Baggist View Post
              ... I think If you work on being a little more economic with your movements you'll be flying. Like on your Outward Triple Elbow Strikes....

              If you throw the last hand in the combo as a straight punch (instead of the more downward arching strike) you'll have that one in the bank.

              Also your Downward Double Elbow Strike....you are bringing the whole arm way up over your head, I think if when you go for it you just bring your hand up by your ear and only bring the elbow up and let the rest follow you'll have that one wrapped up also. Maybe Keep your hands and elbows up in neutral position a little more,
              especially when your first learning combos.
              I think it just comes down to being a little more compact with the movements. Hopefully Alan will post and explain a little better than I can!!! Biff and Brian also had some great advice. Your doing Great!!!
              Actually you said it perfectly. I would have said the same thing. Too much shoulder punching, Arms extended and too tight. When you keep your arms extend out and swing the whole arm, especially in a sideways motion, you're whole arm has to be tense and flexed to keep it out. It creates a bit movement and lots of late punches, which you hear a lot in the first video. Some in the second also

              Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
              Cool...that was quick..... good job
              That's a squeaky swiv, isn't it?
              So when doing this stuff, try to do the "boxer" style of a right straight punch, circling to the left coming into a Rt. FCP... then a left Straight punch circling to the right coming into a Left FCP. It really evens and balances out the form of those punches. And throw some tunes on and see if you can go for the length of song without any mis hits.... it ain't easy... or go for a minute of solid repetition and a moderate pace...It gets those basics engrained in your muscle memory so when you go into advanced combos, you will be able to get back in to straight punching more comfortably.....
              There is so much to attempt on the bag that at times I think I need more work on smooth, speedy basics to get up to the next level!
              But it's all cool cuz it's all baggin'!
              BAG ON!
              Absolutely right. Learning to do the basic rhythm and solid, smooth transitions, basic linking single and double fist from to back, smooth and relaxed.... that is much more important (and useful) later than trying to do all kinds of advanced combinations before you understand and can control the movements. Now there is nothing wrong with trying some more advanced combinations, like Spin says, there is so much too attempt on the bag it's often hard to stay on the less fancy basic movements - but in the end those basics are THE core of everthing else. The real truth is, if you cannot control repetive Front Circle Punching, or Reverse Single and Side Single Punching, then you are kind of wasting your time practicing the Side Double Punch, which really requires control of those movements. Sure it's fun, but you may be learning or making muscle memory problems that will take longer to correct later. With the Triple Elbow Strikes, you need to understand Double Punching, as well as the Double Elbow Strikes in the triplet rhythm. the Triple ES techniques will be much easier if you can do those first.

              I can't really offer a lot of deep positional or advanced insights on your side double punches or triple elbows because the truth is you need to stay simple and hone the basics. You may be struggling with the basic swinging and bag control because your trying all the other stuff. My honest assessment would be to spend the bulk of your practice on the seven basic punches for a while, Four from the front,
              (FCP, FSP, FDP, F-ROLL) three from the back (RSP, RDP, R-ROLL). Focus on your "home" position, and swing motions with small fist circles from the elbow. Try to swing relaxed. That is what spin and Baggist are saying in their own words. To me you look really stiff or over flexed in your shoulders and arms when swinging, and every second or third contact is late. And your fists start swinging hard downward on the bag as you try to get faster.
              Sure, you can try a few Single and Double Elbow techniques and combinations, but try each with a slow basic rhythm. Move into and out of each elbow movement from the basic rhythm, which is nothing more than FCP and FSP. When you can control the FCP and FSP you will find everything else will be learned much quicker.

              I hope you don't take this like I'm dissing your punching or anything. I'm not. I Know you want to "run" on the speed bag, and I want you to also. The best I can do to help in that regard is focus your practice to help you walk a lot better. Walking well frontward and backward is important. Do that, and you may be running in no time.
              Speed Bag

              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
              The Quest Continues...
              Hoping for another Gathering...


              sigpic

              The Art of the Bag

              Comment

              • Jordan
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2009
                • 234

                #8
                Originally posted by Speedbag View Post

                I hope you don't take this like I'm dissing your punching or anything.
                No not at all, I appreciate the advice, I'm always glad to have your help on the bag. I think I just felt like only focusing on the basics seemed plain in comparison with all the great stuff you see on the site. I'll try what you guys said right away

                Comment

                • RenoRattler
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 210

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jordan View Post
                  No not at all, I appreciate the advice, I'm always glad to have your help on the bag. I think I just felt like only focusing on the basics seemed plain in comparison with all the great stuff you see on the site. I'll try what you guys said right away
                  I feel this too man. I just started, and I see all the crazy combos everybody is throwing out on their videos and I just go all starry-eyed.

                  It's hard learning to crawl before walking and running. Especially when the running looks so cool!

                  Comment

                  • spinsmashpop
                    Speed Bag Wizard

                    • Nov 2008
                    • 1081

                    #10
                    Bottom line is, Speedbag said it so it's the word! That's that! I'm sure if Skunk was on here now he'd say the same. I've read his comments too. He tells everyone to bag slow, and speed will come. Have you seen Skunk or Alan Kahn bag slowly? It is badass. It is called control.
                    I say all this because I am guilty as well. My reverse fist roll sucks. And it is simply because I have not put in the time to incorporate it like I have the side reverse punches and other stuff.
                    I am cognisant of it and have slowly but surely been getting better at it. But I also want to show what I got. But what I got is partially not because of my hard work. It is because of my understanding of rhythm. I can get one lick (combo/pattern) going that is an odd number of beats and do it in time and keep it in time because I hear the polyrhthms. Alan has put together pleasing sounding patterns based off of cadences that work within most tunes.
                    I can get around that with polyrhythms and a fist roll to get back on beat. But that is allowing me to NOT advance in a more structured sounding way.

                    Renorattler wrote: "I feel this too man. I just started, and I see all the crazy combos everybody is throwing out on their videos and I just go all starry-eyed."
                    I know what I got to do, but I too want to be a Lord Of All Wizards on the bag. So I try to impress with what I got....
                    But I'll tell ya.... get together with Alan Kahn or Skunk and get a dose of speed bag reality. It can rip you to shreds or inspire....I choose to be inspired. But I also want to hang with greatness!!! haha....
                    So, while I think it's nothing short of awesome to be able to witness all great baggers strutting there stuff...... let us not forget one thing.....
                    What did you think the first time you saw Rocky? When he hit the bag for a few short seconds in any Rocky movie, most people tripped out hard!
                    And all he was doing was the basic boxer punches! But I still watch it with the same excitement becuase he is OWNING those punches! And it looks killer!
                    Hey, we all can't be a Skunk or Kahn in a month or a year or a few years. If we all could, then those guys wouldn't stand out like they do...
                    Sooooo, get some cd's on and keep basic punching basic time with your favorite bands..... how many mis-hits? ..... cuz I've watched Stacey Stay Lo Rielle kill it like not many can on the basics..... and it is so fun watch her non stop... and she looks great doing it!

                    Get some of that together while working on advanced stuff!
                    Or watch Skunk's 5 minute fist roll....

                    He is the Psycho Speed Bagger chillin' on a fist roll with 0 mis hits for 5 minutes!
                    And there's my 2 cents for the night!!!! hahaha...
                    Yeah, it's all great but don't forget how great it was just watching ANYONE hit a bag before we knew how to!!!!

                    Comment

                    • metaldad
                      Speed Bag Guru
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 1514

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                      Actually you said it perfectly. I would have said the same thing. Too much shoulder punching, Arms extended and too tight. When you keep your arms extend out and swing the whole arm, especially in a sideways motion, you're whole arm has to be tense and flexed to keep it out. It creates a bit movement and lots of late punches, which you hear a lot in the first video. Some in the second also



                      Absolutely right. Learning to do the basic rhythm and solid, smooth transitions, basic linking single and double fist from to back, smooth and relaxed.... that is much more important (and useful) later than trying to do all kinds of advanced combinations before you understand and can control the movements. Now there is nothing wrong with trying some more advanced combinations, like Spin says, there is so much too attempt on the bag it's often hard to stay on the less fancy basic movements - but in the end those basics are THE core of everthing else. The real truth is, if you cannot control repetive Front Circle Punching, or Reverse Single and Side Single Punching, then you are kind of wasting your time practicing the Side Double Punch, which really requires control of those movements. Sure it's fun, but you may be learning or making muscle memory problems that will take longer to correct later. With the Triple Elbow Strikes, you need to understand Double Punching, as well as the Double Elbow Strikes in the triplet rhythm. the Triple ES techniques will be much easier if you can do those first.

                      I can't really offer a lot of deep positional or advanced insights on your side double punches or triple elbows because the truth is you need to stay simple and hone the basics. You may be struggling with the basic swinging and bag control because your trying all the other stuff. My honest assessment would be to spend the bulk of your practice on the seven basic punches for a while, Four from the front,
                      (FCP, FSP, FDP, F-ROLL) three from the back (RSP, RDP, R-ROLL). Focus on your "home" position, and swing motions with small fist circles from the elbow. Try to swing relaxed. That is what spin and Baggist are saying in their own words. To me you look really stiff or over flexed in your shoulders and arms when swinging, and every second or third contact is late. And your fists start swinging hard downward on the bag as you try to get faster.
                      Sure, you can try a few Single and Double Elbow techniques and combinations, but try each with a slow basic rhythm. Move into and out of each elbow movement from the basic rhythm, which is nothing more than FCP and FSP. When you can control the FCP and FSP you will find everything else will be learned much quicker.

                      I hope you don't take this like I'm dissing your punching or anything. I'm not. I Know you want to "run" on the speed bag, and I want you to also. The best I can do to help in that regard is focus your practice to help you walk a lot better. Walking well frontward and backward is important. Do that, and you may be running in no time.
                      So true Alan, I had to get back to the basics even though I wanna jump into punch drumming and power hitting.

                      Originally posted by Jordan View Post
                      A little rough around the edges, but I think I'm gettin there.
                      Yeah you are Jordan! Keep following everyone's advice and practicing and you'll be awesome in no time!



                      Originally posted by RenoRattler View Post
                      I feel this too man. I just started, and I see all the crazy combos everybody is throwing out on their videos and I just go all starry-eyed.

                      It's hard learning to crawl before walking and running. Especially when the running looks so cool!
                      You got right Rattler!

                      Originally posted by spinsmashpop View Post
                      Bottom line is, Speedbag said it so it's the word! That's that! I'm sure if Skunk was on here now he'd say the same. I've read his comments too. He tells everyone to bag slow, and speed will come. Have you seen Skunk or Alan Kahn bag slowly? It is badass. It is called control.
                      I say all this because I am guilty as well. My reverse fist roll sucks. And it is simply because I have not put in the time to incorporate it like I have the side reverse punches and other stuff.
                      I am cognisant of it and have slowly but surely been getting better at it. But I also want to show what I got. But what I got is partially not because of my hard work. It is because of my understanding of rhythm. I can get one lick (combo/pattern) going that is an odd number of beats and do it in time and keep it in time because I hear the polyrhthms. Alan has put together pleasing sounding patterns based off of cadences that work within most tunes.
                      I can get around that with polyrhythms and a fist roll to get back on beat. But that is allowing me to NOT advance in a more structured sounding way.

                      Renorattler wrote: "I feel this too man. I just started, and I see all the crazy combos everybody is throwing out on their videos and I just go all starry-eyed."
                      I know what I got to do, but I too want to be a Lord Of All Wizards on the bag. So I try to impress with what I got....
                      But I'll tell ya.... get together with Alan Kahn or Skunk and get a dose of speed bag reality. It can rip you to shreds or inspire....I choose to be inspired. But I also want to hang with greatness!!! haha....
                      So, while I think it's nothing short of awesome to be able to witness all great baggers strutting there stuff...... let us not forget one thing.....
                      What did you think the first time you saw Rocky? When he hit the bag for a few short seconds in any Rocky movie, most people tripped out hard!
                      And all he was doing was the basic boxer punches! But I still watch it with the same excitement becuase he is OWNING those punches! And it looks killer!
                      Hey, we all can't be a Skunk or Kahn in a month or a year or a few years. If we all could, then those guys wouldn't stand out like they do...
                      Sooooo, get some cd's on and keep basic punching basic time with your favorite bands..... how many mis-hits? ..... cuz I've watched Stacey Stay Lo Rielle kill it like not many can on the basics..... and it is so fun watch her non stop... and she looks great doing it!

                      Get some of that together while working on advanced stuff!
                      Or watch Skunk's 5 minute fist roll....

                      He is the Psycho Speed Bagger chillin' on a fist roll with 0 mis hits for 5 minutes!
                      And there's my 2 cents for the night!!!! hahaha...
                      Yeah, it's all great but don't forget how great it was just watching ANYONE hit a bag before we knew how to!!!!
                      I hear ya man! I want so badly to punch drum to Cannibal Corpse and Slayer. But without getting the basics down I'll just look like an idiot punching air!!So I've definitely been working basic punches and sequences again. That Stacy Sta Lo clip is off the hook, and of course Skunk makes it look so easy. My arms burn after 1:30! Soon though.....very soon lol
                      Last edited by metaldad; 09-29-2009, 03:35 PM.
                      sigpic

                      Comment

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