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[metaldad]

Here's a couple mor videos. In the first one I'm trying to get the concept of punch drumming and trying to see where is the best spot for my boom box. the second on I've slowed down and I'm trying to practice new techniques , especially O-DES and O-TES

]

[Biff]

MD, I'm not the one to comment on punch drumming, so I'll leave vid 1 for the punch drumming experts.

In video 2, the only thing I see is that you are punching down on the bag instead of straight through the bag when doing your linking from front to back. If you look closely at the :35 - :45 mark you will see that you are punching down at the bag from the front. This downward striking is causing you to really "loop" your punching, exaggerating the figure 8.

Try to strike the bag at its belly with your fist while keeping your arm parallel to the ground. The only part of your arm that should move is from your elbow to your fist. Then just time the reverse strike with the same movement. There may be some slight looping movement. Your return punch from the back seems to strike the bag perfectly.

When you strike the belly of the bag (from the front) let the fist pass straight through while the bag is ascending to strike the platform, then just time your reverse punch to strike the bag with the same motion, and then repeat. Practice and patience my friend.

The O-TES at the end is coming along. Just remember to get your second fist in position and ready to make the third contact at the right time. it's just a matter of positioning and timing.

You'll have linking and the O-TES down with a little more practice. Nice to see all the vids you are posting. Keep up the good work.

Practice and patience.

[metaldad]

MD, I'm not the one to comment on punch drumming, so I'll leave vid 1 for the punch drumming experts.

In video 2, the only thing I see is that you are punching down on the bag instead of straight through the bag when doing your linking from front to back. If you look closely at the :35 - :45 mark you will see that you are punching down at the bag from the front. This downward striking is causing you to really "loop" your punching, exaggerating the figure 8.

Try to strike the bag at its belly with your fist while keeping your arm parallel to the ground. The only part of your arm that should move is from your elbow to your fist. Then just time the reverse strike with the same movement. There may be some slight looping movement. Your return punch from the back seems to strike the bag perfectly.

When you strike the belly of the bag (from the front) let the fist pass straight through while the bag is ascending to strike the platform, then just time your reverse punch to strike the bag with the same motion, and then repeat. Practice and patience my friend.

The O-TES at the end is coming along. Just remember to get your second fist in position and ready to make the third contact at the right time. it's just a matter of positioning and timing.

You'll have linking and the O-TES down with a little more practice. Nice to see all the vids you are posting. Keep up the good work.

Practice and patience.

Thanks Biff. The first vid is mostly experimentation and figuring out the right spot for the boom box. as you could probably hear, the bag would drown out the music so I gotta play around and find out where to place the cd player in relation to the mic on the camera. In the second vid, I have alot of bad habits to break. The first being to not hit so hard. I knew something was "off" with the reverse punching, I just have to slow down even more. I actually do catch myself punching down quite a bit. I'll keep practicing.

[Tim]

MD, I'm not the one to comment on punch drumming, so I'll leave vid 1 for the punch drumming experts.

Ditto Sounds like a cool song though , you need to get some super high speed F-ROLLS in there

In video 2, the only thing I see is that you are punching down on the bag instead of straight through the bag when doing your linking from front to back. If you look closely at the :35 - :45 mark you will see that you are punching down at the bag from the front. This downward striking is causing you to really "loop" your punching, exaggerating the figure 8.

Yeah, i saw that too , try to pass your fist through the bag without dropping it at all if possible.

Great stuff, great F-ROLL, with some nice transitions in , and good job on the triple elbows at the end.

You went from no videos to many videos in one week !!! Good job and just wait until the master gives you feedback. Your skills are going to shoot through the roof.

[Speedbag]

Here's a couple mor videos. In the first one I'm trying to get the concept of punch drumming and trying to see where is the best spot for my boom box. the second on I've slowed down and I'm trying to practice new techniques , especially O-DES and O-TES

]

Great Video's Metaldad. Here's a bit of a review if you don't mind..


Video 2:

:22 - 30 sec: Great continous Front Double Punching (FDP) combo's. x8. (Remember this! FDP is a "core" technique for many multi fist combo's)

I notice you do a lot of Four Punch Fist Rolling (F-Roll) , which is nicely wierd. Nice because it forces you to start the roll with on fist and come out on the other, ( R-L-R-L). This will help create more control and not be a one handed bag puncher. Wierd because most people will not do this without making them. It's much easier to stop and start with the dominant hand. Nice to see you are not doing that. You have nice arm position and movements on the Fist Rolls also. You've also go nice position, movement and transitions from Front Fist Rolling to FDP. That tells me you are developing excellent "multi-fist" transitions from the front of the bag. That will be important soon, for this ability is needed in many "complicated looking" front combinations - but you already the foundation to connect the parts. You'll see pretty soon....

2:38 - 3:00 (* thanks for the audio insight...). I'm not sure what you were trying to do, but your lift fist was wondering around trying to figure it out also. It was down, up, down, then under and around behind. Particularly from 2:45 - 3:00. I see you were changing on the Reverse Single Punch (RSP), because your right fist hit the bag RSP, then rebounded three times for the Left fist to duck from the front, under and come in for a RSP. I would suggest if you want to change on a RSP, let the other hand "hang out" extended from the side-Reverse area and then come in. I think you lost momentum on your combo during that time period trying to hold your hands in the front and then come in from behind. IF you were trying to split fist, it is much easier to use a Front Straight Punch (FSP) position on the front hit. I might suggest you do some continous Reverse Single Punching (RSP) with each fist individually. You will need more control and comfort from behind the bag, and I'm don't think you're there yet. When doing 5-8 RSP's behind the bag, lean slightly to the side you are punching from. (helps clear your nose out of the rebound arc).

You were fishing a bit trying to do the Front Double Punch - to - Reverse Double Punch (FDP ' ' RDP) combo's for a while. But at 3:12 - 3:19 you did a few very solid. You've already got a nice FDP movment and contact, so just use that base, then extend both fists through the bag (not far), then hold that position as you bring them back to the front area in the RDP.

3:23 Outward-Triple Elbow Strike. (O-TES). You appear to be making the classic mistake of this technique, trying to emphasize the last fist by waiting a bit to long to throw it, and trying to hit it harder than the other part. The rush is throwing your timing off to create a late hit normally.
It may help to remember, the core technique of the O-TES is the FDP at the end. It is really nothing more than a FDP with a leading elbow in front. Try this: Set you fists in FDP position in front of the bag, than turn your body from waist, drawing your hands back until your elbow is up near the front belly of the bag. Perhaps raise that should a bit to get the point of the elbow pointing at the bag, then let the lead elbow hit the bag, and do a FDP. You already great FDP control, so let it work for you on this technique. Normally in the combo
(O-TES) ' ' ' (O-TES)... you will find the second fist of your FDP will normally be closer to FSP position. It adds a better flow to the movement. Eventually you will link this last fist through to behind and then you may find the Front Circle Punch (FCP) position is easier, although not mandatory. The bottom line is, USE your nice FDP control to help guide this O-TES. You already know how to do it...just connect the parts better with timing.

I'll end TAPE 2 by saying that I think some of your struggle is because the bag is too high. The belly is at your forehead, which can really make someone raise their arms and fist up to hit "down" on the bag (which is to high so you can't hit straight into it..). Lowering the bag or raising yourself up may actually eliminate your downward arm swinging motion.

Video 1. When Punch Drumming, I always like to have the boom box up close to the bag, (under angled up) and on the side of the camera. That puts the music close to my ear, close to me to control on and off, and close to the camera microphone. You will always have to do a "trial" run, hitting to a song for about 30 seconds, then go review it to see if the music is too low or too high for the punching. On fast music, I will have to punch harder and faster, thereby requiring louder music for me (and the camera) to hear it over the bag. It is a bit of audio art to get the bag volume and music volume mixed just right. You have to do this "live" as it happens. You can't fix this in post. I have many video clips where I punched a great take, but the music is either too soft or too loud when played back.

I hate to say it, but In all honesty I can't comment on your punch drumming to this song because I can't hear any easily distinquished beat or melody in that particular song. Personally I would find it a very difficult song to punch to.
I'm kind of a wimp because I look for songs that are "easily punchable". Personally I almost always choose songs that have an easily distinquishable beat, an easy distinquished Melody and I really like a lot of individual note separation. I also like instruments that can be heard over the bag, like Sax, horns, fiddle and Banjo. Personally I find some Hard Rock, hip hop and most heavy metal very difficult to punch to for various reasons.

I know you are a metal man, and I am not to familiar with a lot of that music, so maybe you could shoot out a list of 8-10 songs you like and want to use for Punch Drumming. I'll look them up to see which I think is easy to punch to. I think there are probably some metal songs that are easier to punch with and that will help you learn. If you make it to Chicago, hopefully myself and SSP can give you a stick metronome and show you some easy syncopated combinations you can use.

[metaldad]

Great Video's Metaldad. Here's a bit of a review if you don't mind..


Video 2:

:22 - 30 sec: Great continous Front Double Punching (FDP) combo's. x8. (Remember this! FDP is a "core" technique for many multi fist combo's)

I notice you do a lot of Four Punch Fist Rolling (F-Roll) , which is nicely wierd. Nice because it forces you to start the roll with on fist and come out on the other, ( R-L-R-L). This will help create more control and not be a one handed bag puncher. Wierd because most people will not do this without making them. It's much easier to stop and start with the dominant hand. Nice to see you are not doing that. You have nice arm position and movements on the Fist Rolls also. You've also go nice position, movement and transitions from Front Fist Rolling to FDP. That tells me you are developing excellent "multi-fist" transitions from the front of the bag. That will be important soon, for this ability is needed in many "complicated looking" front combinations - but you already the foundation to connect the parts. You'll see pretty soon....

2:38 - 3:00 (* thanks for the audio insight...). I'm not sure what you were trying to do, but your lift fist was wondering around trying to figure it out also. It was down, up, down, then under and around behind. Particularly from 2:45 - 3:00. I see you were changing on the Reverse Single Punch (RSP), because your right fist hit the bag RSP, then rebounded three times for the Left fist to duck from the front, under and come in for a RSP. I would suggest if you want to change on a RSP, let the other hand "hang out" extended from the side-Reverse area and then come in. I think you lost momentum on your combo during that time period trying to hold your hands in the front and then come in from behind. IF you were trying to split fist, it is much easier to use a Front Straight Punch (FSP) position on the front hit. I might suggest you do some continous Reverse Single Punching (RSP) with each fist individually. You will need more control and comfort from behind the bag, and I'm don't think you're there yet. When doing 5-8 RSP's behind the bag, lean slightly to the side you are punching from. (helps clear your nose out of the rebound arc).

You were fishing a bit trying to do the Front Double Punch - to - Reverse Double Punch (FDP ' ' RDP) combo's for a while. But at 3:12 - 3:19 you did a few very solid. You've already got a nice FDP movment and contact, so just use that base, then extend both fists through the bag (not far), then hold that position as you bring them back to the front area in the RDP.

3:23 Outward-Triple Elbow Strike. (O-TES). You appear to be making the classic mistake of this technique, trying to emphasize the last fist by waiting a bit to long to throw it, and trying to hit it harder than the other part. The rush is throwing your timing off to create a late hit normally.
It may help to remember, the core technique of the O-TES is the FDP at the end. It is really nothing more than a FDP with a leading elbow in front. Try this: Set you fists in FDP position in front of the bag, than turn your body from waist, drawing your hands back until your elbow is up near the front belly of the bag. Perhaps raise that should a bit to get the point of the elbow pointing at the bag, then let the lead elbow hit the bag, and do a FDP. You already great FDP control, so let it work for you on this technique. Normally in the combo
(O-TES) ' ' ' (O-TES)... you will find the second fist of your FDP will normally be closer to FSP position. It adds a better flow to the movement. Eventually you will link this last fist through to behind and then you may find the Front Circle Punch (FCP) position is easier, although not mandatory. The bottom line is, USE your nice FDP control to help guide this O-TES. You already know how to do it...just connect the parts better with timing.

I'll end TAPE 2 by saying that I think some of your struggle is because the bag is too high. The belly is at your forehead, which can really make someone raise their arms and fist up to hit "down" on the bag (which is to high so you can't hit straight into it..). Lowering the bag or raising yourself up may actually eliminate your downward arm swinging motion.

Video 1. When Punch Drumming, I always like to have the boom box up close to the bag, (under angled up) and on the side of the camera. That puts the music close to my ear, close to me to control on and off, and close to the camera microphone. You will always have to do a "trial" run, hitting to a song for about 30 seconds, then go review it to see if the music is too low or too high for the punching. On fast music, I will have to punch harder and faster, thereby requiring louder music for me (and the camera) to hear it over the bag. It is a bit of audio art to get the bag volume and music volume mixed just right. You have to do this "live" as it happens. You can't fix this in post. I have many video clips where I punched a great take, but the music is either too soft or too loud when played back.

I hate to say it, but In all honesty I can't comment on your punch drumming to this song because I can't hear any easily distinquished beat or melody in that particular song. Personally I would find it a very difficult song to punch to.
I'm kind of a wimp because I look for songs that are "easily punchable". Personally I almost always choose songs that have an easily distinquishable beat, an easy distinquished Melody and I really like a lot of individual note separation. I also like instruments that can be heard over the bag, like Sax, horns, fiddle and Banjo. Personally I find some Hard Rock, hip hop and most heavy metal very difficult to punch to for various reasons.

I know you are a metal man, and I am not to familiar with a lot of that music, so maybe you could shoot out a list of 8-10 songs you like and want to use for Punch Drumming. I'll look them up to see which I think is easy to punch to. I think there are probably some metal songs that are easier to punch with and that will help you learn. If you make it to Chicago, hopefully myself and SSP can give you a stick metronome and show you some easy syncopated combinations you can use.

Thanks Alan, on the Four Punch Fist Roll, I started doing that because it sounded cool (L-R-L-R, 2-3, L-R-L-R, 2-3, L-R-L,R-L-R,L-R-L-R,2-3), I'm no drummer, however, I did play snare sophmore year in high school and attempted bass drum in marching band, and I've always been fascinated with conga drums and bongos, so I'm always practicing basic rudiments(?) with my hands. I have a short attention span, so I haven't fully read the bible cover to cover, but I'm always skimming through and focusing on certain techniques. Like with any skill muscle memory plays a key roll, with the reverse punching that's what I'm pretty much doing, getting used to the motion. When I start the technique, my left wants to keep going from the front instead of the rear. I'll lower the platform a notch, I do seem to be looking "up" at the bag in my videos. I never really noticed this before. As a result I don't keep my elbows up as often.

I'll still experiment with the boom box, I'm sure I'll find theright spot for it eventually. In my excitement to start posting and add tunes I grabbed the first cd in my collection lol. Here's a list of some mid paced metal tunes that I really dig: "Down Again" by Chimaira
"Eyes of a Criminal" by Chimaira
"Horrorscope" by Overkill
"Walk" by Pantera
"A new Level" by Pantera
"Seasons In The Abyss" by Slayer
"Divine Intervention" by Slayer
"When Death Replaces Life" by Cannibal Corpse
"Decency Defied" by Cannibal Corpse
"More Than Meets The Eye" byTestament
"Washington Is Next" by Megadeth
I gotta stop cuz I could just keep going with the list of hard and heavy songs. These songs are all guitar driven so it's the riffs that get me going. However they're all mid paced tunes(Cannibal Corpse and Chimaira might be a bit much lol). I should just burn of tunes. These are just some VERY metal songs that pop into mind and are not played at hyperspeed but are still SUPER heavy. Thanks again Alan

[Jordan]

man....I gotta say I love Alan's perspective on everything....once I learn a skill, I can't really explain it as far as how to start out. It's just in my muscle memory at that point and I just do it lol. But Alan always seems to be able to get a great description out from a beginners perspective. Kudos to you Alan.

[Speedbag]

man....I gotta say I love Alan's perspective on everything....once I learn a skill, I can't really explain it as far as how to start out. It's just in my muscle memory at that point and I just do it lol. But Alan always seems to be able to get a great description out from a beginners perspective. Kudos to you Alan.

Thanks, Jordan. I appreciate the insights. I'm lucky to have worked with a lot of people over the years who approached to ask "how I did that", whatever it was - and I tried to teach them. The thing to remember is, If they don't know how to do it, or how the speed bag works - they are pretty much a beginner to the skills they are asking about. Even someone who has hit for 10 years and can rip it from the front. When it comes to something more complicated that includes linking fist(s) through or elbows, they are a beginner to that concept. I try to start from a point of what someone already knows, try to explain how the skills they already have will be used in the skill or combo they wanted to learn, or that I'm explaining to them. Speed bag punching as I see it and teach it is not a hodgepodge of fists and elbows randomly thrown together. It's an organized flow of movements that smoothly connects fists and elbows in a logically way from all around the bag. The movements begin with simple single fists punches, then progress to more complicated multi-part techniques, almost always advancing by adding one more part(s) into the movement that you already know how to do. take the Front Double Punch. IF you can do that well, then all three triple elbow strikes are 2/3 complete already before you ever see them. For the Outward-Triple Elbow Strike (O-TES), put and elbow in front. For the Inward-Triple Elbow Strike (I-TES) put the elbow on the end, for the Downward-Triple ES (D-TES), put the elbow in the middle. The FDP portion doesn't really change.
IF someone can do an O-TES, and they can otherwise link (pass through) a single fist front to back (FCP) ' ' (RSP) ' ' (FCP), then it's just a small leap to link a single fist off the FDP or O-TES by understanding they are already linking a fist through. Adding it on to another technique doesn't require another learned movement. They are already doing it.

In all the flow of speed bag movements that I have ever seen, there are only seven individual movements that connect the four parts.

Front Circle Punching
Front Straight Punching (hits front of fist)
Reverse Punching
Hook Punching (hits front of fist)
Outward Elbow
Downward Elbow
Inward Elbow

(* Side Single punching is simply the Reverse Punching movement with a slightly altered elbow position to make the fist hit the side panels of the bag, not the back. it is not a different movement).

Any technique will just add parts on within these movements. Once you get the timing they appear to flow as one connected motion, which is what they are.

Arm (elbow) position, swing movement and bag position make all these easier to do, (or harder...), depending on your line up. As you know, I advocate the raised elbow position and bag belly at the mouth as the most efficient start position to make all this flow easier.

The SBB just tries to deliver this info in a systematic order, starting from the more simple movements to the more complex. But when I'm teaching someone personally I will normally start with what they already know and move forward or backward to start connecting more parts and movements.

Sorry 'bout that. I didn't mean to go off on a "how to" diatribe. Probably too much coffee this morning. Didn't mean to wear your eyes out.

[Tim]

man....I gotta say I love Alan's perspective on everything....once I learn a skill, I can't really explain it as far as how to start out. It's just in my muscle memory at that point and I just do it lol. But Alan always seems to be able to get a great description out from a beginners perspective. Kudos to you Alan.

Yes, he can watch a video clip and come up with the most amazingly detailed insights. My eyes aren't fast enough to keep up with half of what other people post.