Walk Alone

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  • Jake
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 113

    Walk Alone



    I've been trying to work the 4-way O-I Elbow Strikes to music lately. I'm not sure if you would consider these 4-ways to be on beat, but most of them were feeling pretty good.

    Note how dry the Swivel sounds when I spin it in the beginning. I should have stopped to oil it up, but I didn't want to lose the feeling I had going when this song came on.
  • PunchDrummer
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 247

    #2
    I've enjoyed watching your stuff Jake!
    You have a "natural" look to your punching - and you took to the music and expressive combos pretty quickly. Keep having fun with it - it shows.
    New second drum? Shiny!
    Keep 'em coming.

    Comment

    • paranday
      Speed Bag Guru
      • Sep 2009
      • 2515

      #3
      Like it!

      Comment

      • fedora
        Speed Bag Guru
        • Dec 2012
        • 471

        #4
        You've been the inspiration for me to work on that 4 way OIE strike without the triplet rebound. After your last video that's all I've been working on. You make it seem so effortless and for me it's the hardest, most complex move I've yet to learn. I'm getting better at it but it's still takes me a while to get dialed in on it. When I can just walk up and do it as naturally as a front double punch I'll know I've finally got it, but I'm not there yet. Thanks for the video.

        fedora

        Comment

        • Speedbag
          Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

          • Feb 2006
          • 7109

          #5
          Originally posted by Jake View Post


          I've been trying to work the 4-way O-I Elbow Strikes to music lately. I'm not sure if you would consider these 4-ways to be on beat, but most of them were feeling pretty good.

          Note how dry the Swivel sounds when I spin it in the beginning. I should have stopped to oil it up, but I didn't want to lose the feeling I had going when this song came on.
          Wow, I'd say you got that Out-In 4way Elbow Strike (O-I 4way) down cold.

          man, check it out.

          :11 - :20 x12

          :21 - :29 x12

          3:07 - 3:26 x27 times (13 combinations with one rebound)

          I'm lucky right now if I can get x4, and that's rare.

          Since the (O-I 4way) combo on ONE rebound is really like a non-stop Front Fist Roll using elbows, thats 27x4=108 non stop contacts with one rebound inbetween, or a F-Roll of 108 punches. But the beauty is, the accent pattern of your 108 contacts is different from a standard
          F-Roll, and the only person I know who could throw out a Fist Roll that long with varying accent patterns at the same speed is G-Town (Louis).

          As for "punch drumming" with it, you were mostly on beat with it, particularly during the opening.

          Your video highlights the differences in what I call (for teaching purposes, mostly) punching in "syncopated combinations" or in "Basic Rhythm, or straight time" punching. Depending on the song, changing between these two styles normally requires a noticeable speed change in punching. In this song, using syncopated combinations mostly, but notice at :54 - 1:13 you punched a lot faster and fell into the basic rhythm, punching directly on the beat, particularly at 1:03 to 1:13. Then you stop with the music, and begin again, punching much slower, kind of caught between speeds until 2:21 when you kick back to basic rhythm punching directly on the beat for a while. Watch through your video a few times and notice when you fall "behind" the beat occasionally. The accents of the bag combo's is sometimes a bit behind the song for several measures and it appears you are focusing on the techniques your doing, which is fine, but the speed of them fall off sync to the music, just slightly. I can tell you that syncopated combination punching style to this song is much slower groove than basic rhythm punching.

          The point is, there is a very definite speed and power difference to mix combinations in these two methods. I think you hear the bag beat in your head fine, and learning the power and bag control when switching is coming to you. Sometimes you fall off beat and I think that is because you still might be focusing on doing "techniques" to the music, rather than the freely expressing the sound patterns the techniques and combinations make. As you become more familiar with the combinations beat patterns, and the power changes required to jump from one combo to another and match the accents to music, you'll be nailing all of this ON TIME to the song with little problem.

          I'm not dissing your punch drumming by the way. Being on beat vs off-beat is sometimes a challenge and nobody said it was easy. It's hard to "teach it" in text, much easier to demonstrate if I was there with you. You were on beat for about half the song and my comments are only trying to help you sync the other half with the combinations you know how to do, and you know how to do plenty...I just want you to consider the punching speed changes needed for certain changes.

          But as for the O-I 4way combo's, you own those, no question!
          Last edited by Speedbag; 05-27-2013, 12:10 AM.
          Speed Bag

          Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
          *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
          The Quest Continues...
          Hoping for another Gathering...


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          The Art of the Bag

          Comment

          • Homer
            Member
            • May 2013
            • 31

            #6
            Thanks for posting!! I'm still green, but it looks like there are a lot of ideas here I can try to absorb/ try out eventually. Right on!

            Comment

            • fedora
              Speed Bag Guru
              • Dec 2012
              • 471

              #7
              The 4 way OIE with the triplet rebound between sides I'm pretty comfortable with, but with the one rebound it's another story. Once in a while I can just walk up to the bag and and start nailing it, but that's a rarity. Usually I have to go back and forth missing it for at least 3 to 4 rotations before I can have it in the groove. With the regular 4 way and triplet rebound you have some time between sides to make minor adjustments in arm position but with one rebound you have very little time and that seems to make a huge difference in keeping it going for more than 4 or 5 rotations from right to left. Also trying to link it with other combo's is still a crap shoot as to whether I'll get it or not. But hey, if it were easy it wouldn't give you any satisfaction when you finally get it.

              fedora
              Last edited by fedora; 05-27-2013, 09:12 PM.

              Comment

              • Jollygood49
                Member
                • Jan 2013
                • 96

                #8
                Like Fedora, I too have been impressed and inspired by your 4 way elbows especially the continuous single rebound chains. I also have been working on those and am having a hard time controlling the bag between sides. Your punch drumming is very entertaining to watch as well. I began working on punch drumming not too long ago and am looking forward to getting to your level.

                Comment

                • Jake
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 113

                  #9
                  Originally posted by PunchDrummer View Post
                  I've enjoyed watching your stuff Jake!
                  You have a "natural" look to your punching - and you took to the music and expressive combos pretty quickly. Keep having fun with it - it shows.
                  New second drum? Shiny!
                  Keep 'em coming.
                  Thanks Punchdrummer. That second drum has not had much use. I have been using nothing but the Lazer XS on my home made platform.

                  Originally posted by paranday View Post
                  Like it!
                  Thanks Paranday!

                  Originally posted by fedora View Post
                  You've been the inspiration for me to work on that 4 way OIE strike without the triplet rebound. After your last video that's all I've been working on. You make it seem so effortless and for me it's the hardest, most complex move I've yet to learn. I'm getting better at it but it's still takes me a while to get dialed in on it. When I can just walk up and do it as naturally as a front double punch I'll know I've finally got it, but I'm not there yet. Thanks for the video.
                  Fedora there's something special about hitting the 4-ways. Some days they come easy, and other days not so easy. But when you get "dialed in", and everything is flowing smooth and steady, it's a real good feeling.


                  Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                  Wow, I'd say you got that Out-In 4way Elbow Strike (O-I 4way) down cold.

                  man, check it out.

                  :11 - :20 x12

                  :21 - :29 x12

                  3:07 - 3:26 x27 times (13 combinations with one rebound)

                  I'm lucky right now if I can get x4, and that's rare.

                  Since the (O-I 4way) combo on ONE rebound is really like a non-stop Front Fist Roll using elbows, thats 27x4=108 non stop contacts with one rebound inbetween, or a F-Roll of 108 punches. But the beauty is, the accent pattern of your 108 contacts is different from a standard
                  F-Roll, and the only person I know who could throw out a Fist Roll that long with varying accent patterns at the same speed is G-Town (Louis).

                  As for "punch drumming" with it, you were mostly on beat with it, particularly during the opening.

                  Your video highlights the differences in what I call (for teaching purposes, mostly) punching in "syncopated combinations" or in "Basic Rhythm, or straight time" punching. Depending on the song, changing between these two styles normally requires a noticeable speed change in punching. In this song, using syncopated combinations mostly, but notice at :54 - 1:13 you punched a lot faster and fell into the basic rhythm, punching directly on the beat, particularly at 1:03 to 1:13. Then you stop with the music, and begin again, punching much slower, kind of caught between speeds until 2:21 when you kick back to basic rhythm punching directly on the beat for a while. Watch through your video a few times and notice when you fall "behind" the beat occasionally. The accents of the bag combo's is sometimes a bit behind the song for several measures and it appears you are focusing on the techniques your doing, which is fine, but the speed of them fall off sync to the music, just slightly. I can tell you that syncopated combination punching style to this song is much slower groove than basic rhythm punching.

                  The point is, there is a very definite speed and power difference to mix combinations in these two methods. I think you hear the bag beat in your head fine, and learning the power and bag control when switching is coming to you. Sometimes you fall off beat and I think that is because you still might be focusing on doing "techniques" to the music, rather than the freely expressing the sound patterns the techniques and combinations make. As you become more familiar with the combinations beat patterns, and the power changes required to jump from one combo to another and match the accents to music, you'll be nailing all of this ON TIME to the song with little problem.

                  I'm not dissing your punch drumming by the way. Being on beat vs off-beat is sometimes a challenge and nobody said it was easy. It's hard to "teach it" in text, much easier to demonstrate if I was there with you. You were on beat for about half the song and my comments are only trying to help you sync the other half with the combinations you know how to do, and you know how to do plenty...I just want you to consider the punching speed changes needed for certain changes.

                  But as for the O-I 4way combo's, you own those, no question!
                  Thanks Allen! You are always very helpful. I will read through this thread and the last helpful thread you wrote about my last video. Maybe I'll take some notes.
                  Last night I clicked on this video and walked away. It really didn't sound that good. It sounded like I was off beat a lot. But as you said I think I was concentrating on techniques.
                  Once I get the moves down, I want to try to understand the music part of things better. Some day I hope I can hit consistantly on beat, like a professional drummer would. I really don't think much about what I'm doing as far as being on beat. It's more like the way I use my steering wheel for a drum when I'm in my truck. Just kind of banging along doing what feels good.

                  Originally posted by Homer View Post
                  Thanks for posting!! I'm still green, but it looks like there are a lot of ideas here I can try to absorb/ try out eventually. Right on!
                  Thanks Homer! This is the place to learn. It gets to be more and more fun as you start getting the moves down.

                  Originally posted by ventanakaz
                  ...i bet you'll have it pretty soon and the funny thing about getting the 4-way dialed in is after you get it, it seems like one of the easiest combos to do, well for me at least i find it a no brainer... ;-) and it's alot of fun.
                  Ralph your right. Once you get them going they come pretty easy. You really don't have to think to much.

                  Originally posted by fedora View Post
                  The 4 way OIE with the triplet rebound between sides I'm pretty comfortable with, but with the one rebound it's another story. Once in a while I can just walk up to the bag and and start nailing it, but that's a rarity. Usually I have to go back and forth missing it for at least 3 to 4 rotations before I can have it in the groove. With the regular 4 way and triplet rebound you have some time between sides to make minor adjustments in arm position but with one rebound you have very little time and that seems to make a huge difference in keeping it going for more than 4 or 5 rotations from right to left. Also trying to link it with other combo's is still a crap shoot as to whether I'll get it or not. But hey, if it were easy it wouldn't give you any satisfaction when you finally get it.

                  Fedora I found learning the 4-ways with 2 rebounds between worked well for me. That's when I really started dialing them in. I have Skunk to thank for that. His "4-way continuous elbow strike" video was a huge help to me.
                  Last edited by Jake; 05-28-2013, 09:27 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Jake
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 113

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jollygood49 View Post
                    Like Fedora, I too have been impressed and inspired by your 4 way elbows especially the continuous single rebound chains. I also have been working on those and am having a hard time controlling the bag between sides. Your punch drumming is very entertaining to watch as well. I began working on punch drumming not too long ago and am looking forward to getting to your level.
                    Hey Jollygood when I saw Skunk ripping up the 4-way O-I elbows a couple years ago I was hooked. It's just a real cool feeling when you get them going. Punchdrumming is awesome! One great thing about it is listening to good tunes.

                    Comment

                    • jzeeder
                      Speed Bag Trainee
                      • May 2013
                      • 4

                      #11
                      This week has been eye opening. First, Alan and his book, then the Speed bag Skunk, and now this forum. The speed bag has always been awesome, but all I've ever seen done is the fist roll with some front double punches. That's a great combination in your video. One day...one day

                      Comment

                      • fedora
                        Speed Bag Guru
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 471

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jake View Post
                        I have Skunk to thank for that. His "4-way continuous elbow strike" video was a huge help to me.
                        Could you post a link to that video?

                        thanks: fedora

                        Comment

                        • Jake
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 113

                          #13
                          Originally posted by fedora View Post
                          Could you post a link to that video?

                          thanks: fedora


                          Fedora, this is the video that I found very helpful. When I hit 4-ways like this (2 rebounds between 4-way strikes) I hit them more to the side, like Skunk is doing. I also tend to bring my fist in lower on the chest, get under the bag, and swing side to side a little more.

                          When I do 4-ways with 1 rebound between strikes, I hit the bag more towards the front, bring my fist in higher on the chest, keep on top of the bag instead of getting under it, and swing less at the hips.

                          It's not a huge difference between the two when I watch my self on video. But the little adjustments I make feel pretty big when I'm doing them.

                          I think the trick is to find your own comfortable groove. One thing that stuck in my head a couple years ago was Skunk saying something like this in a Linking video he did-
                          "This might not be the way you hit your 4-ways or 3-ways or 2-ways"

                          That let me know I didn't have to copy him exactly, but find my own way. I think that allowed me to relax, and feel my way through things. Rather than hit in a rigid way. If that makes any sense.

                          Comment

                          • fedora
                            Speed Bag Guru
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 471

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ventanakaz
                            hey fedora, i'm looking into getting a smartphone this week, if you want i could upload my first video to youtube and have it be one of me showing the 4-way slowly or i could show the 5-way or i could show my combo of the upward elbow going into a 5-way then going into a 4-way then lastly a 3-way. if anyone has some helpfull advice on using a smartphone to upload a vid to youtube, that would be great...ralph

                            All video's are helpful. Would love to see yours.

                            fedora

                            Comment

                            • fedora
                              Speed Bag Guru
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 471

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jake View Post


                              Fedora, this is the video that I found very helpful. When I hit 4-ways like this (2 rebounds between 4-way strikes) I hit them more to the side, like Skunk is doing. I also tend to bring my fist in lower on the chest, get under the bag, and swing side to side a little more.

                              When I do 4-ways with 1 rebound between strikes, I hit the bag more towards the front, bring my fist in higher on the chest, keep on top of the bag instead of getting under it, and swing less at the hips.

                              It's not a huge difference between the two when I watch my self on video. But the little adjustments I make feel pretty big when I'm doing them.

                              I think the trick is to find your own comfortable groove. One thing that stuck in my head a couple years ago was Skunk saying something like this in a Linking video he did-
                              "This might not be the way you hit your 4-ways or 3-ways or 2-ways"

                              That let me know I didn't have to copy him exactly, but find my own way. I think that allowed me to relax, and feel my way through things. Rather than hit in a rigid way. If that makes any sense.
                              Thanks Jake. All tips are appreciated. Skunks video does show a different way of doing it. It looks more under the bag than across, but that shows the variety of ways to do it as you mentioned. My way (so far) resembles the way you are doing it and feels the most natural.

                              Thanks for posting. fedora

                              Comment

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