Rocky Greiner - Swivel prototype

[Biff]

Hi all, I just ran across this video made by Rocky Greiner. It's a prototype of a speed bag swivel that he came up with. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on its design and function. I'm especially interested in Alan's thoughts, since he's been around speed bags and swivels for over 40 years, and in MsDeville's thoughts, since she and Raul designed and manufacture their own swivel.

However, I'd like to hear from everyone - so chime in.

[Speedbag Seaweed Man]

That was interesting Biff.

I had a few thoughts.

1) The swivel looked like it would hang the bag lower from the board than the ballhooks I am familiar with, making a bigger rebound arc and a maybe a slower (longer) rebound?

2) The benefit of having the second lowermost element moving secondary and independent of the shroud piece and fixed ball would only show when using a very small bag as usually the bag will hit the board well before a horizontal point on the swivel is reached?

3)More moving parts may mean more points for sloppiness or wear to occur?

4)I wonder, with it's lack of mass, will the moving parts function smoothly and without delay when being struck with such sudden force, or without a layer of lube to float on, will they lock up? I suspect the traditional ballhook relies on the size and mass of the moving part (the ball) to spread the forces evenly around itself and for example on traditional ball hooks a very small ball won't work as well as one of say an inch in diameter?

5) A benefit I can see is that with this design the ball cannot be forced upward in its socket when being struck by a miss-hit. Although I like the 'clunk' sound my swivel make when I botch it as it gives me some audio signs of how things are going.

I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks too. I don't like picking holes in peoples ideas - I am just participating in your thread and calling it as I see it. Its a shame it was never made.

[paranday]

I think it is something you'd have to hit first to get the feel of it, then it could be judged. Might be quieter.

The old eyebolt / rope swivels are quiet, need no lube, and achieve much the same freedom of movement if the eyebolt rotates in a bearing. I like the feel of the rope swivel as well as its simplicity.

[Speedbag]

Hi all, I just ran across this video made by Rocky Greiner. It's a prototype of a speed bag swivel that he came up with. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on its design and function. I'm especially interested in Alan's thoughts, since he's been around speed bags and swivels for over 40 years, and in MsDeville's thoughts, since she and Raul designed and manufacture their own swivel.

However, I'd like to hear from everyone - so chime in.

You know I have a great fondness for Rocky as he and I go back many years when he sent me a video of him hitting in his basement on the equipment he built, as well as the swivel (chain link at the time) he had modified.

It can be seen in this video here:

This entire video is actually just the last few minutes of a much longer video he had made for me to demonstrate his "adjustable" swivel, which was a unique way to "lock" a chain link swivel into one plane of movement. If I remember right he had seen my training video, or postings online, that praised the ballhook as the most natural because the link connections of a chain link will sometimes "kink" or align in such a way to cause a slight variance in the rebound angle.
His Idea, or preferred method, was to hit basically in one plane, either front to back OR side to side, and you can lock the chain links in place to make that plane dominant. You can see in the video above he starts out hitting from to back and at 1:33 he moves his locking clip design to the links will now go sideways, to allow you to do side punching techniques. I think in the original vhs video he sent to me he also had a bunch of closeups of the swivel and how his locking mechanism worked. Then he started his punching demonstration which this video is a small part. I was impressed with his amazing knowledge of engineering and mechanics, as well as his intent to create a unique swivel adaption. However I was more impressed with his punching ability which fostered my post of the most amazing combination I had ever seen (to that point)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IutpV8COM0w&NR=1

for his use the inward elbow strike was fascinating. Mind you I believe this as in the late 1990's when he sent me the original. His behind the back elbows and use of the Side-Triple Elbow Strike (S-TES) with a Front Straight Punch (FSP) as the last fist, (not a SSP) was also original to me, which I thought this swivel adaption allowed. I made him a response vhs presentation, (did a lot of the in the pre-youtube days), praising his invention and skills, however I preferred the ballhook so the user did not have to punch in the direction the swivel was set, but rather front back or sideways at will, which his design would not allow. That swivel also would eliminate the more complex super advanced combinations that have the hands walking around the bag with one rebound inbetween, for when the chainlink is locked front to back, the swivel will not move sideways, which ruins any sideways rebound.

So now he comes with this invention, which is a tribute to his dedication to the speed bag and fascination with swivel design. (by the way, he designed and built the rebound frames and pole hanging system also). A handy mans handy man, IMO.

I can immediately say I like this new ball design far better than a locking link design, and his design skills are formidable. Reminds me a the thousands of designs to build a better mousetrap, .and yet

In my opinion, first, to be honest, I'd have to see a working prototype actually hit with different sizes bags. Of course we'd all love to punch one up ourselves, wouldn't we? I sure would. But at first look and imagination, I agree with Speed bag seaweed:

That was interesting Biff.

I had a few thoughts.

1) The swivel looked like it would hang the bag lower from the board than the ballhooks I am familiar with, making a bigger rebound arc and a maybe a slower (longer) rebound?

2) The benefit of having the second lowermost element moving secondary and independent of the shroud piece and fixed ball would only show when using a very small bag as usually the bag will hit the board well before a horizontal point on the swivel is reached?

3)More moving parts may mean more points for sloppiness or wear to occur?

4)I wonder, with it's lack of mass, will the moving parts function smoothly and without delay when being struck with such sudden force, or without a layer of lube to float on, will they lock up? I suspect the traditional ballhook relies on the size and mass of the moving part (the ball) to spread the forces evenly around itself and for example on traditional ball hooks a very small ball won't work as well as one of say an inch in diameter?

Seaweeds analysis is exactly what I thought (scary how we think so much alike SBSW )

I agree with #2, and especially question the need for the lower movement arm for the belly of a fat bag will probably hit the board before that second movement would make a different.

I also agree with #4 above. Some may disagree but I found the lighter plastic ball models that were made for a few years to be a bit harder to control for they seemed to "float" the rebound, as did some of the early light brass ball attempts. I think the mass of the swivel ball does make a difference and allows it to stay seating better in the housing. I never noticed any float in a normal steel ball and certain not in the jump cannon models.

But the proof is under the board, with the bag coming off your own fist. or that of a recognized and trusted bagger.

That's it from me.

ps: Thanks ROCKY! always great to see one of our elders still in the game!

[BaggerBob]

Awesome vid of Rocky bangin' away! Enjoyed watching it.

[Zaza]

As much as I love innovation & design...I always fall back on two sayings, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "less is more". Sometimes we tend to over-think. Give me a Deville, powermill evil, Tommy T., vintage Nicol or just a rope & eyehook... They all work for me.

(That said, I have a few swivel designs of my own I've been playing with for the last few years!)

[paranday]

(That said, I have a few swivel designs of my own I've been playing with for the last few years!)

i thinks a bunch of us do.