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  • #16
    From a physics point of view, there are several factors that play a role in the top speed of a bag. The S-hook on a ball swivel is one component that contributes to the pendulum swing of any bag. And that pendulum swing is one of the speed factors. Whether it is a major factor, or to what extent it contributes to the speed limit, depends upon the other components and factors. Put another way, a shorter S-hook will make the bag faster, but it is not the only contributing factor. How much depends on the other variables in the equation. As Ralph posts above, a short tight loop on the bag also helps.

    -Rusty
    @ArcSwivel
    #ArcSwivel sigpic

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    • #17
      Is the possible loss of control on the bag a factor? I recall reading a post by Alan K ( a paraphrased quote) that too much speed can cause loss of control of the bag. I suppose though that maybe control can be obtained, as one gets use to the faster speeds

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      • #18
        the post I made above (#16) only addressed the question of the top speed that can be generated on a speed bag, and I was thinking only about the speed bag and platform, not the puncher. Just like the speed bag setup itself, the puncher has much to do with how fast a speed bag can go. On that side of the equation, I for one am not the right guy to even speculate on the most important factors there.

        -Rusty
        @ArcSwivel
        #ArcSwivel sigpic

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        • #19
          Yes, I understand that speed is an individual component. I can make a bag only go so fast. I found if I try to press for faster speed, then control is lost after a few seconds.. Some bags I do better speed wise, ie; Cleto Reyes vs EverLast. CR I can make go faster than a comparable sized EverLast, hitting them approximately the same. I spend 80% hitting big bags anyway. From Title's Big Blue to 15 and 16 inchers so speed is kind of secondary to me.

          And say Rusty, how is the rehab coming with the shoulders? Any thing promising?
          Last edited by REB; 08-29-2017, 12:41 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by REB View Post
            So Ralph, what I am taking away from your loop post is; that the loop plays the major role in speed that can be generated with any bag. The length makes the difference..AH-Ha. What is the size of the Chicago screw you used?
            ...3/16 Aluminum, The reason I use aluminum is because I live on the coast (Pacifica) and everything rust here l drilled out the old ones then made two new holes in the loop to lower the loop deeper into the bag

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ventanakaz View Post
              ...3/16 Aluminum, The reason I use aluminum is because I live on the coast (Pacifica) and everything rust here l drilled out the old ones then made two new holes in the loop to lower the loop deeper into the bag
              Gotcha... The 3/16 though is about the thickness of the bag and loop being joined together?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by REB View Post
                Is the possible loss of control on the bag a factor? I recall reading a post by Alan K ( a paraphrased quote) that too much speed can cause loss of control of the bag. I suppose though that maybe control can be obtained, as one gets use to the faster speeds
                Exactly my point. "Too much speed" is always dependent on the user and their control. Any bag, no matter what size, can always go faster. The fastest speed for YOU is always dependent on your control....of swing size, speed and force. I doubt I could control the blazing bag speed of SpeedBagSkunk. Maybe I could for 3 or 4 punches...but at some point, my hand will not make it back to the bag on time, ...and will miss hit or break down. I also cannot consistently generate the power he maintains over time. Of course Punch Power, and your ability to control it, has a direct impact on continuous bag speed. I do not generate anywhere near the continuous punching power now that I did 20 years ago. Too many shoulder operations, waaay too much pain to tolerate now. So, my present top speed is about my old "training speed." (But still punching )

                I have long put speed bag "speeds" into 3 categories.

                1. Learning speed. As slow as it takes to learn a new move or combination and practice it. This will slower get faster over time. As you get more skillful, your learning speed can increase.

                2. training speed. This to me was my "natural hitting speed", about 80-90% of Max speed. Fast enough to be challenging yet let me find that "zone" where I did not have to concentrate on technique or moves. Just letting it fly, but letting me hit for as long as I want to get really "burned shoulders" or cardiovascular. It's physically challenging, but not exhausting. Runners may call this the period of "the runner high." when your running pace, breathing and body motion is totally in sync. You are no longer aware of conscious effort or technique, you just "flow" and let your practice take over. You don't consciously notice the board, or swivel or arm motions, or bag. Mentally I might be off working on some other problem of the day, or become completely absorbed in the song I'm punching to. I'm am sure this is the Martial Art state of "No mind". You do not have to think, you just re-act. As you skill, control an conditioning increase over time, this training speed will get faster and faster. But you do not "try" to go fast. That takes conscious effort to "go fast". This is were "the speed bag" really becomes the control bag.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbecIBvR3mE




                3. Top Speed. Simple put, the edge of control. Sure I could hit the bag HARDER and make it go faster than this, but the fist or arm circle would need to be larger and I could not return in time after 4 or 5 punches. At top speed, I was having to concentrate on "hitting clean" or miss. Punching at this rate always felt a bit strained and forced. You burn out quick at this rate, or miss in a minute or less. Incidently - this would also be "after burner speed" when punch drumming...If I needed to really gas it for a music bar or phrase, usually going to double time. It's like throwing that nitro switch for a few seconds, but then backing down.....or I'd crash and burn.

                I interpret these 3 speed levels on ANY swivel or bag. The equipment will allow you to find each of these levels on it's own. My training speed on a 11x8 bag was of course slower than training speed on a 8x5. Or it might change from a ballhook to a chainlink swivel. No matter. In a few minutes my mind would sync them up.

                Anyway, that's how I see it.
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Onward to SpeedB.A.G. X! Summer 2019

                THE 10th Year Reunion!

                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by REB View Post
                  Gotcha... The 3/16 though is about the thickness of the bag and loop being joined together?
                  Yes

                  Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                    Exactly my point. "Too much speed" is always dependent on the user and their control. Any bag, no matter what size, can always go faster. The fastest speed for YOU is always dependent on your control....of swing size, speed and force. I doubt I could control the blazing bag speed of SpeedBagSkunk. Maybe I could for 3 or 4 punches...but at some point, my hand will not make it back to the bag on time, ...and will miss hit or break down. I also cannot consistently generate the power he maintains over time. Of course Punch Power, and your ability to control it, has a direct impact on continuous bag speed. I do not generate anywhere near the continuous punching power now that I did 20 years ago. Too many shoulder operations, waaay too much pain to tolerate now. So, my present top speed is about my old "training speed." (But still punching )

                    I have long put speed bag "speeds" into 3 categories.

                    1. Learning speed. As slow as it takes to learn a new move or combination and practice it. This will slower get faster over time. As you get more skillful, your learning speed can increase.

                    2. training speed. This to me was my "natural hitting speed", about 80-90% of Max speed. Fast enough to be challenging yet let me find that "zone" where I did not have to concentrate on technique or moves. Just letting it fly, but letting me hit for as long as I want to get really "burned shoulders" or cardiovascular. It's physically challenging, but not exhausting. Runners may call this the period of "the runner high." when your running pace, breathing and body motion is totally in sync. You are no longer aware of conscious effort or technique, you just "flow" and let your practice take over. You don't consciously notice the board, or swivel or arm motions, or bag. Mentally I might be off working on some other problem of the day, or become completely absorbed in the song I'm punching to. I'm am sure this is the Martial Art state of "No mind". You do not have to think, you just re-act. As you skill, control an conditioning increase over time, this training speed will get faster and faster. But you do not "try" to go fast. That takes conscious effort to "go fast". This is were "the speed bag" really becomes the control bag.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbecIBvR3mE




                    3. Top Speed. Simple put, the edge of control. Sure I could hit the bag HARDER and make it go faster than this, but the fist or arm circle would need to be larger and I could not return in time after 4 or 5 punches. At top speed, I was having to concentrate on "hitting clean" or miss. Punching at this rate always felt a bit strained and forced. You burn out quick at this rate, or miss in a minute or less. Incidently - this would also be "after burner speed" when punch drumming...If I needed to really gas it for a music bar or phrase, usually going to double time. It's like throwing that nitro switch for a few seconds, but then backing down.....or I'd crash and burn.

                    I interpret these 3 speed levels on ANY swivel or bag. The equipment will allow you to find each of these levels on it's own. My training speed on a 11x8 bag was of course slower than training speed on a 8x5. Or it might change from a ballhook to a chainlink swivel. No matter. In a few minutes my mind would sync them up.

                    Anyway, that's how I see it.
                    Nobody could've said it better than you, Perfect. I guess that's why your the Speed Bag King, and thanks for all you do and say, You are truly a nice guy BTW I have that movie, Great movie.

                    Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk
                    Last edited by ventanakaz; 08-30-2017, 09:47 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Papa's new Bag, RevGear 9" Now I have both sizes 9" and 11" I'll probably shorten the loop on the 9 and that should really pick up the speed BTW these bags bounce great.

                      Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                        Exactly my point. "Too much speed" is always dependent on the user and their control. Any bag, no matter what size, can always go faster. The fastest speed for YOU is always dependent on your control....of swing size, speed and force. I doubt I could control the blazing bag speed of SpeedBagSkunk. Maybe I could for 3 or 4 punches...but at some point, my hand will not make it back to the bag on time, ...and will miss hit or break down. I also cannot consistently generate the power he maintains over time. Of course Punch Power, and your ability to control it, has a direct impact on continuous bag speed. I do not generate anywhere near the continuous punching power now that I did 20 years ago. Too many shoulder operations, waaay too much pain to tolerate now. So, my present top speed is about my old "training speed." (But still punching )

                        I have long put speed bag "speeds" into 3 categories.

                        1. Learning speed. As slow as it takes to learn a new move or combination and practice it. This will slower get faster over time. As you get more skillful, your learning speed can increase.

                        2. training speed. This to me was my "natural hitting speed", about 80-90% of Max speed. Fast enough to be challenging yet let me find that "zone" where I did not have to concentrate on technique or moves. Just letting it fly, but letting me hit for as long as I want to get really "burned shoulders" or cardiovascular. It's physically challenging, but not exhausting. Runners may call this the period of "the runner high." when your running pace, breathing and body motion is totally in sync. You are no longer aware of conscious effort or technique, you just "flow" and let your practice take over. You don't consciously notice the board, or swivel or arm motions, or bag. Mentally I might be off working on some other problem of the day, or become completely absorbed in the song I'm punching to. I'm am sure this is the Martial Art state of "No mind". You do not have to think, you just re-act. As you skill, control an conditioning increase over time, this training speed will get faster and faster. But you do not "try" to go fast. That takes conscious effort to "go fast". This is were "the speed bag" really becomes the control bag.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbecIBvR3mE




                        3. Top Speed. Simple put, the edge of control. Sure I could hit the bag HARDER and make it go faster than this, but the fist or arm circle would need to be larger and I could not return in time after 4 or 5 punches. At top speed, I was having to concentrate on "hitting clean" or miss. Punching at this rate always felt a bit strained and forced. You burn out quick at this rate, or miss in a minute or less. Incidently - this would also be "after burner speed" when punch drumming...If I needed to really gas it for a music bar or phrase, usually going to double time. It's like throwing that nitro switch for a few seconds, but then backing down.....or I'd crash and burn.

                        I interpret these 3 speed levels on ANY swivel or bag. The equipment will allow you to find each of these levels on it's own. My training speed on a 11x8 bag was of course slower than training speed on a 8x5. Or it might change from a ballhook to a chainlink swivel. No matter. In a few minutes my mind would sync them up.

                        Anyway, that's how I see it.
                        All the above is exactly true. I used to just try to be fast, now I get the most satisfaction when I am going slow, smooth and steady. My mind can wander while I hit for long periods of time with no misses. It is at this point that bagging is a stress reducer, and something that I truly enjoy. When I try to go really fast it requires great concentration, tires me too quickly and can add frustration.

                        When I get into a zone it is slow smooth and steady and the beat of the bag really makes me forget any of life's problems.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          got my lonsdale today its really nice soft leather almost like roo ,its quite big for a small but it has a nice tear trop shape . but i definitely have to do something with the loop its freaking long
                          Attached Files

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                          • #28
                            here some more pics
                            Attached Files

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by florian 380 View Post
                              here some more pics
                              Good looking stuff there florian. I have been hankering for the Fighting-Sports-Pro for a while now. But the 7x10 Black one.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by florian 380 View Post
                                got my lonsdale today its really nice soft leather almost like roo ,its quite big for a small but it has a nice tear trop shape . but i definitely have to do something with the loop its freaking long
                                Perhaps a cobbler can shorten that loop by an inch or two.

                                -Rusty
                                @ArcSwivel
                                #ArcSwivel sigpic

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