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Please critique! (triple elbows and reverse fist rolls!)

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  • Please critique! (triple elbows and reverse fist rolls!)

    Well it's been ten weeks since I entered this rollercoaster speedbag world, here's where I'm up to so far! The start is really sloppy, but trust me it gets (a bit) better!

    Please critique!

    Having just watched the video back myself, I noticed my elbows are dropping (again!), any tips on how to solve this problme?

    Thanks in advance guys!

    -Ifor


  • #2
    Your doing great for just 10 weeks. I was under the drum for 8 months before I attempted Triple Elbows.

    I would say you need to concentrate on where your elbows are. Try starting with the basic FCP (front circle punch) keeping the elbows out to the side. Once your doing that without having to think about it, then start hitting from the rear or side. A mirror mounted under your drum would be a good idea.

    Your triple elbows are looking pretty good to me!

    Some on else will no doubt come along and give you some more detailed advice.

    Good luck and keep up the good work!

    Vini

    Comment


    • #3
      Iforwms....
      Great job! It's all there and you are taking your time!
      By taking your time you will speed up the rate you increase your skills!
      Dude,
      speed bagging rules!
      BAG ON!

      Comment


      • #4
        Great job!!

        a lot of mix. overall, i would say to try to loosen up the hips. when youre doing your otes especially, you seem really stiff in the hips and it's affecting your follow through. im sure it's because of your newer to the bag, but i think that if you loosen up youll see some results and fluidity. keep it up!

        Comment


        • #5
          You're doing great for 10 weeks! Keep at it, your are doing really well for such a short time. Like AK says, it's not a race.
          You might benefit from a little bit of weight on top of that drum .. small bag of sand etc; I think spinsmashpop even mentioned that he tossed a bag of dog food up there to do the trick. (Great place to store it too)
          Congrats for sticking with it for 10 weeks and are still coming back for more. I'm afraid your going to have to find a way to break it to your significant other that you have another love in your life
          Last edited by Whippet; 02-18-2009, 06:32 PM. Reason: wording

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iforwms View Post
            Well it's been ten weeks since I entered this rollercoaster speedbag world, here's where I'm up to so far! The start is really sloppy, but trust me it gets (a bit) better!

            Please critique!

            Having just watched the video back myself, I noticed my elbows are dropping (again!), any tips on how to solve this problme?

            Thanks in advance guys!

            -Ifor

            "...I noticed my elbows are dropping (again!), any tips on how to solve this problem?"

            Yes. a very simple fix is: Don't drop them

            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            Actually you are not dropping them from what I see. Actually you are holding a very nice elbow position, particularly when linking single fists. Your shoulder-to-elbow is pretty rock solid straight ( :47-53 left arm = nice position, then split fist after Front Double Punch (FDP) x4 :53 - 57) the your right fist 1:04 to 1:19. Great shoulder to arm position. Pretty solid. It's OK to reposition the elbow while your swinging and split fisting. The secret is having it up in the level position when you decide to link again. If you leave the fist behind to do Several repeating Reverse Single Punches, (RSP), you can drop it a bit for that movement. When your bring that fist back, get the elbow up just before you pass through. Holding the elbow up is most important for "the link" to another side. You can always stay on one side for a few punches, drop the elbow and rest the shoulder a bit for a few seconds. That is how you keep going and going and going.... the little rest stops help.

            I could say a lot of great stuff about your combo's. I love your FDP to split fists, particularly since you keep the front fist in Front Straight Punch (FSP) position, which makes this a lot easier. Your single fist is passing very nicely through the bag, I don't see any "waving underneath" or downward motion.

            You are still "searching" for the feel of the Double fist pass through, and the Double fist techniques (Reverse Double Punch (RDP) and Reverse Fist Roll (R-Roll) but not bad for your time under the board. That will come with practice.

            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            I would suggest a few Reverse Practice combinations to get your hands a bit more comfortable from behind the bag. (see exercises in the advanced chapter, pages 126 - 128 "Advanced Reverse Punching")

            Start doing some LEFT RSP, x3-5, then change to Right RSP x3-5.

            Then on the change over, do a RDP so you do 3-5 RSP, the RDP and let the second fist continue single punching.

            then do L-RSP ' ' ' L-R RDP ' ' ' R-RSP ' ' ' R-L RDP ' ' ' ...repeat, which is really RDPihg with one single punch in between.

            then try continous RDP ' ' ' RDP, rotating the lead L-R ' ' ' R-L

            Now the harder part. Do RDP x2, and let the second fist link to the front, go back behind to lead the next RDP. It looks like this:


            R-L RDP ' ' ' L-R RDP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' R-L RDP ' ' ' L-R RDP ' ' ' R-L RDP ' ' L-FCP ' ' L-R RDP ' ' ' R-L RDP ' ' ' ...repeat

            The key is seeing that your just doing RDP until either the R or L fist is the second fist, then let that fist link front to back, keeping the main action in the reverse position. This will help you get fist control (and arm position) doing double fist combinations behind the bag, and force you to let each fist link front to back on a regular basis. Then you can add a little 3-5 punch R-Roll into the mix. say doing a
            RDP ' ' FCP ' ' R-ROLL x5 ' ' ' RDP....

            and remember, a R-ROLL x3 is just a RDP + one fist.
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            The only thing I don't particularly recommend is doing repetitive Downward Double Elbow Strikes. (:10 - :16 and 1:52 - 1:55 x3 ). Sure it is possible but it is not a naturally occuring combination. This can get technical, and I cover it in the opening segment of the advanced chapter 10, pages 118 - 120. The natural flow of punching and movements will almost never have two repetitive inward moving techniques occur. Think about the Basic Rhythm:

            R-FSP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' ' L-FCP ' ' ' ....repeat.

            The FSP = Inward motion to center of body
            The FCP = outward motion from center.

            Two things here:

            1. R-FSP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' ' L-FCP ' ' ' ....repeat.
            2. R-FSP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' ' L-FCP ' ' ' ....repeat.

            1 = inward flow of one arm is naturally followed by the outward movement of the same arm.
            2. outward motion of one arm is naturally followed by the inward motion of the other arm.

            Go as fast as you want, and this is a natural flow. Now you can do repetitive outward FCPs. L-FCP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' '...repeating. Do it with ONE rebound and you create the F-ROLL,

            but you will almost NEVER naturally do continous alternating FSP. R-FSP ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' ' R-FSP.... or R-FSP ' ' ' R-FSP.... It feels weird. Yes you can do it, but you would never really do this in a natural flow. Outward motions flow easily together. Inward motions do not. It has to do with your body position. Feel the natural flow of your body as you swing, the speed bag shuffle step, putting your weight into every punch. Doing two repetitive inward motions does not sync with that flow. (Least not for me.)

            Using elbows does not change this natural flow. The Downward Double Elbow Strike is actually an "inward movement" in this case, and easily replace the FSP in the basic rhythm, just like the Outward Double Elbow Strike (and outward movment) replaces the FCP. Making those substitions, you can still go as fast as you want in the basic rhythm. And you can do a very easy Double Elbow basic rhythm like this:

            instead of

            R-FSP ' ' ' R-FCP ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' ' L-FCP ' ' ' ....repeat.

            do this

            R-DDES ' ' ' R-ODES ' ' ' L-DDES ' ' ' L-ODES ' ' ' ....repeat. ( very easy combo..)

            But you are trying to do this:

            R-DDES ' ' ' L-DDES ' ' ' R-DDES ' ' ' L-DDES ' ' ' 'R-DDES ....ahhh!

            and try this: R-DDES ' ' ' L-FSP ' ' '....repeat.....ahhh!

            YES it is possible. It can be done. But as a beginner I don't think it is a beneficial combination to spend time on, and it is the hardest elbow strike to link from, since you have to move the downward moving elbow back out to the home linking position as the fist hits the bag.

            OK, you asked about the Outward Triple Elbow Strike. (O-TES). The only thing I see (:30 - :33) is the last (second) fist seem to move up a bit too high and then move DOWN into the bag, like you're raising it a bit too high just before contact. But you already have the correct angle! you just don't know it. At :53 you start a Split Fist with the O-TES and your fist position is much better. Then you do some FDP - split fist movements with great fist angles. Guess what...... the O-TES is nothing more than a FDP with an elbow in the front. You do not have to change your FDP fist positions to do the O-TES. Actually if you just rotate your upper body a bit to make room for the elbow to align with the bag you can go from a FDP to the O-TES very quickly. After your RSP ' ' ....pass through, just rotate the body a bit more to let the elbow align and you'll be amazed at how fast easy it is.

            L-RSP ' ' O-TES (L\R-R) ' ' R-RSP ' ' O-TES (L\R-R)...repeat.

            Hope it helps and doesn't confuse you too much.
            Speed Bag

            Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
            *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
            The Quest Continues...
            Hoping for another Gathering...


            sigpic

            The Art of the Bag

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            • #7
              As always you guys deliver! Thanks very much for all the advice, I'm taking it all on board, and will post another video up soon.

              Alan, not confused, but will take an hour or two to get those new combos down! Will kep you posted.

              Thanks again!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by iforwms View Post
                As always you guys deliver! Thanks very much for all the advice, I'm taking it all on board, and will post another video up soon.

                Alan, not confused, but will take an hour or two to get those new combos down! Will kep you posted.

                Thanks again!
                take your time. It's not a race, and every technique or combo you learn will actually open up 3 or 4 more new ones also. Your working on the tip of a huge Iceberg of potential. I still see different combinations by others I never thought of,

                (...and don't think I haven't tried)
                Speed Bag

                Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
                *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
                The Quest Continues...
                Hoping for another Gathering...


                sigpic

                The Art of the Bag

                Comment

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