A great song to punch along with.
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HA! That's too funny (and your age is showing ).
Funny story.... so I'm in Las Vegas a few years back and I jump into a cab. As I start a chat with the driver, we start talking about music....turns out it was Ron Bushy (the drummer)! He drives cab in Vegas....and when they have a gig, he's there. It was pretty cool.
Last edited by Zaza; 06-21-2012, 08:26 AM.Art of the Bag - A Speed Bag Story
http://www.artofthebag.com
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Originally posted by Zaza View PostHA! That's too funny (and your age is showing ).
Funny story.... so I'm in Las Vegas a few years back and I jump into a cab. As I start a chat with the driver, we start talking about music....turns out it was Ron Bushy (the drummer)! He drives cab in Vegas....and when they have a gig, he's there. It was pretty cool.
Going from Touring Drummer of a top rock band to Cab Driver in Vegas.
(* Note to Brian Tichy: Hey BT, if this drumming thing don't work out....)
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Here is an interview with Ron Bushy for a bit of history on the song.
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Having hit the speed bag to many songs with "heavy drum solo's", I can tell you it's not always that easy when the drummer is going off on all kinds of riffs around the set, particular low toms. The Bag sound gets lost and it's hard to define "your" bag jam from the drummers. Especially if there is little chance to "sync" you bag beat right in with the drummers, and that will require that the drum solo has several measures of a very repetitive drum pattern and stays on one or two drums for sound consistency, such as wipe out, which is easier to match accented bag beats with. If that solo changed drums every two or three beats it wouldn't be as much fun to punch with because your bag beat would get lost in the sound variance.
If you want to try and Bag with lots of drums (not easy....) besides "wipe out", here A few drum based songs to practice with (* music may be dated, but if you want to bag with drums, jump in..)
Let there be drums by Sandy Nelson (lots of Tom and floor drums in Nelson's drumming, which I loved. also, I like the constant hi-hat chick on "2" & "4" which helps you know where you are in the measure when the drums vary. )
the Birth of the Beat I have always loved this with some awesome repetitive drum and patterns for bag sync. and there are times to let your bag be silent and let the drummer have it.
Several Sandy Nelson songs:
1. Drums A Go-Go (o - 2:30
2. Soul Drums (2:35 - 6:05)
3. Big Noise From The Jungle (6:12 - 8:20)
I grew up listening to Sandy Nelson and loved his Stroke-bounce style (which matches very nicely with a double fist pass through accent) and repetitive drum grooves, so you can hear the same accents repeated over and over to match your bag beat. I also like the fact that he plays a measure or two rhythm on one drum and then repeats (echo) it on another, and sometimes extends it for multiple measures - letting you enjoy the groove before changing it. That also allows you to sync the bag beat to it a few times. You will also find your bag beat difficult to determine at times when it's ALL DRUMS in non-stop mixed accents. I think it's best to lay off the bag for a few measures rather than have it get lost in the solo. It's also disrespectful to the drummer to just bag beat his solo to death. He plays a while, you play a while. No one said you have to punch "every single measure" of the song.
Topsy Part I & II by Cozy Cole from swing era, Big Band. Part II has longer drum solo sections
As you will find from baggin' to the above, Bagging with Drums is not all that easy....
Trying to continously bag with longer drum solo's is also harder than you think. I personally find it easier to "punch with the drummer" for a few measures, than back off and let the music and drums have it for a few measures, then maybe jump in for another few measures, than out. Otherwise, (IMO) the bag adds nothing to the performance for there is little differentiation other than just punching the bag during a drum solo.
As for punch drumming (tm) with the Solo from Inna-Godda-Da-Vida, that was done some time ago by Skunk, who was going along with his uncle on the drums. Awesome speed baggingfor sure, and sometimes is the bag syncs to the drums, especially when the drummer stays on "one drum" for a while so you can really hear the bag beat vs with drums. Anyway, watch and listen... for the best affect, close your eyes and listen to the drums and bag. (* may need to turn you sound up for the audio is low on this clip)
Last edited by Speedbag; 06-21-2012, 01:31 PM.Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
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The Art of the Bag
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NEEDLESS TO SAY, speed bag Skunk can work a speed bag!
This whole punch drumming thing is way beyond my skill level and is really something only real speed bag masters can do. When eeenie meenie miney moe is about all one can muster, watching speed bag Skunk is mind boggling; nevertheless, listening to music while bagging is always enjoyable, and once in a while a few hits will sync with the music, once in a while.
Did I mention that speed bag Skunk boggles the mind?Randolph Leslie Smith
Washington State Licensed Real Estate Broker
Learned Speed Bag fundamentals in 1973
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Originally posted by Randolph View PostNEEDLESS TO SAY, speed bag Skunk can work a speed bag!
Originally posted by Randolph View PostThis whole punch drumming thing is way beyond my skill level and is really something only real speed bag masters can do.
"Speed Bag Masters" brings up another point, for it's true that the more you CAN do on the bag (hit from all sides, elbows etc.) the more options you have when punch drumming.....BUT it doesn't matter how good someone is, if they can't sync their bag beat to an external beat, or align their punching combinations to the music, they are not punch drumming. They may be hitting some amazing speed bag with music in the back ground, but that doesn't make it actually "drumming" to the music if their bag beat is way off from the song. Not all "Bag Masters" can Punch Drum effectively, Yep, I said it - and that is because (IMO only) they are trying to throw really fast and fancy combinations that they can do, (looks great..) BUT the beat it makes does NOT align to the song. In my book, if it's OFF BEAT, it's not punch drumming, just awesome speed bag with music on. the PUNCHED (accented) bag beats have to match up or it's out of time. Imagine a band playing a song at 120 beats per minute and a drummer playing at 170 beats per minute.
to take away the "amazing speed bag combinations" that you see someone doing, simply listen the music and bag punching with your eyes closed. when you take away the visual entertainment of watching their punching moves, and JUST focus on the sound it makes, you will quickly hear if the bag is really "in time" to the music or not.
So, Randolph, I'm betting YOU CAN punch drum to music, and if you come to the Gathering in New Jersey July 13-15 2012, I will be happy to try and prove that to you
Try to punch along steadily with these metronomes
100 BPM
110 BPM
Rock Drum Jam 100BPM
there's a lot of these types of "timing" video's on youtube. I suggest you download a few and try punching along to the metronomes or basic beat patterns. Sometimes trying to learn to punch drum with you favorite music is more difficult because of all the "Other stuff" going on in the music, guitars riffs, syncopation etc. To learn to SYNC your punching to a basic beat, it's often best to learn with just a basic external beat and learn to control your bag beat from that.Last edited by Speedbag; 06-22-2012, 02:38 PM.Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
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The Art of the Bag
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Originally posted by Speedbag View PostYep, that is interplanetary speed baggin' for sure. DNA testing has yet to confirm his exact origins, but it's pretty safe to say there has been some genetical manipulation involved. When I ask him about that he just smiles, like he knows - but it's a secret.
Gotta disagree there, Randolph. Anyone can "punch drum", or purposely hit the speed bag to music (as differentiated from hitting the bag at any pace with music on in the background. That is just hitting with music on, but punch drumming (tm) is hitting TO the music. (There is a difference) If you can punch in the Basic Rhythm, from the front with three rebounds inbeween, all you have to do is find the beat of a song, (tap your foot in time to the music) than punch every time your foot taps. When you hear (and feel) the PUNCH (loudest rebound of the three) is right on the tap of your foot, you should notice that the bag beat is aligned with the song. Most people immediately notice (hearing) that the bag is really aligned with the music. At that point, you ARE punch drumming. You don't have to be a "real speed bag master" to do that. Even a basic beginner who can keep a steady basic rhythm can punch drum to a song. It may be a slow song, or fast song, but that only depends on how fast they can do the basic rhythm.
"Speed Bag Masters" brings up another point, for it's true that the more you CAN do on the bag (hit from all sides, elbows etc.) the more options you have when punch drumming.....BUT it doesn't matter how good someone is, if they can't sync their bag beat to an external beat, or align their punching combinations to the music, they are not punch drumming. They may be hitting some amazing speed bag with music in the back ground, but that doesn't make it actually "drumming" to the music if their bag beat is way off from the song. Not all "Bag Masters" can Punch Drum effectively, Yep, I said it - and that is because (IMO only) they are trying to throw really fast and fancy combinations that they can do, (looks great..) BUT the beat it makes does NOT align to the song. In my book, if it's OFF BEAT, it's not punch drumming, just awesome speed bag with music on. the PUNCHED (accented) bag beats have to match up or it's out of time. Imagine a band playing a song at 120 beats per minute and a drummer playing at 170 beats per minute.
to take away the "amazing speed bag combinations" that you see someone doing, simply listen the music and bag punching with your eyes closed. when you take away the visual entertainment of watching their punching moves, and JUST focus on the sound it makes, you will quickly hear if the bag is really "in time" to the music or not.
So, Randolph, I'm betting YOU CAN punch drum to music, and if you come to the Gathering in New Jersey July 13-15 2012, I will be happy to try and prove that to you
Try to punch along steadily with these metronomes
100 BPM
110 BPM
Rock Drum Jam 100BPM
there's a lot of these types of "timing" video's on youtube. I suggest you download a few and try punching along to the metronomes or basic beat patterns. Sometimes trying to learn to punch drum with you favorite music is more difficult because of all the "Other stuff" going on in the music, guitars riffs, syncopation etc. To learn to SYNC your punching to a basic beat, it's often best to learn with just a basic external beat and learn to control your bag beat from that.
I'll keep working on it.Randolph Leslie Smith
Washington State Licensed Real Estate Broker
Learned Speed Bag fundamentals in 1973
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Originally posted by Randolph View PostOK, that makes sense now that I have listened to the 100BPM and 110BPM and the video you just posted, I realize now that it was having watched you guys and gals punch drum at about 1010BPM that made it harder for me to "get it".
I'll keep working on it.
Unpunched rebounds are kind of "dead air" in Punch Drumming for it's the accented (punch) that keeps you synced to the song.
now that I think about it....., at 1,010 BPM you better call Skunk! He'd have a better chance of keeping up with that.Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
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The Art of the Bag
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Originally posted by Speedbag View Post1010BPM That will probably be much easier to keep up with using syncopated rhythms, with lots of single and double fist pass throughs. It's often easier hitting to fast music using the a lot of figure 8 linking (passing fists through bag) because there are fewer "unpunched" rebounds required.
Unpunched rebounds are kind of "dead air" in Punch Drumming for it's the accented (punch) that keeps you synced to the song.
now that I think about it....., at 1,010 BPM you better call Skunk! He'd have a better chance of keeping up with that.
Randolph Leslie Smith
Washington State Licensed Real Estate Broker
Learned Speed Bag fundamentals in 1973
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Originally posted by Randolph View PostThis is the absolute best punch drumming video I have ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0El88yLjag
Originally posted by ventanakaz...i love how alan leaves the miss hits in there (the beginning and at the end)...ralph
Times past I used to punch as many takes as necessary to try and get one full clean take with no mistakes, (hard to do over a 4 or 5 minute song) but then I decided the mistakes actually prove this is all completely improvised. Imagine how hard it would be to know exactly what combo you did in a song having over 300 measures. Like a drummer dropping a stick, you just have to grab another and keep playing.
Last edited by Speedbag; 06-24-2012, 01:38 AM.Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
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The Art of the Bag
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