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OK! Hey Roc. Good hearing you again. That song is a interesting speed cause you can do a slow Basic Punching OR a fast Double Time Basic Punching, as well as medium speed synocopated combinations.
you're throwing in some pretty sneaking Double Time stuff in there...
I loved your "triple-Triple" at 1:39. (S-TES ' ' S-TES ' ' D-TES). Yea, I saw it....
Pretty nice double split fisting on the four bounce beat also at 2:09. I think You're hearing some advance poly rhythmic bag beats now. You keep on and you're gonna get "Tichyfied" if you know what I mean. Then you'll have the Roo's jumpin!Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
sigpic
The Art of the Bag
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Thanx Alan.
I'm glad you looked at it.
I'm still playing around with a lot of things at the moment, trying to find what fits and where to fit it or how to make it fit (I'm sure you'd be familiar with that).
This was done on a 1st take and whilst I have hit to this song before, it is a bit of a rarity.
Thought it was time I made a contribution.
As for that Roo bouncing, I don't think Deano could be topped on that one. He's got that pretty down pat.sigpic'IRON HORSE, LIVE TO RIDE'
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Good stuff Roc!
You have some smooth skills going on! Very natural!
I'd love to see you lock in to a tune with some basic FCP and stuff! Your technique is advanced and sometimes the ease and level of bagging at that level makes one think the simpler stuff is less impressive.
But on the contrary, the basics make the advanced stuff "pop out" more.
I think The Baggist just wrote that punch drumming can be looked at like real drumming.... you first keep time with the music and choose points to put in fills (advanced hitting), that way you really are "playing" with the band and not just soloing over them....
But of course there is Keith Moon, who managed to create the illusion of a drum solo within the song!
Anyhow, just a thought.....
Great job!
BAGS UP!
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Originally posted by spinsmashpop View PostGood stuff Roc!
You have some smooth skills going on! Very natural!
I'd love to see you lock in to a tune with some basic FCP and stuff! Your technique is advanced and sometimes the ease and level of bagging at that level makes one think the simpler stuff is less impressive.
But on the contrary, the basics make the advanced stuff "pop out" more.
I think The Baggist just wrote that punch drumming can be looked at like real drumming.... you first keep time with the music and choose points to put in fills (advanced hitting), that way you really are "playing" with the band and not just soloing over them....
But of course there is Keith Moon, who managed to create the illusion of a drum solo within the song!
Anyhow, just a thought.....
Great job!
BAGS UP!
EXACTLY. the secret to punch drumming is "keeping time to the song". You establish a basic bag beat to the song. This can be done in a few different ways, (at least the way I view it..) with Basic "Straight Time" Rhythm punching or "Syncopated Combinations". The flow of the song (give me a word here, BT) really gives you which method will work the best or easiest. It becomes the "home system" for that song. Some songs allow you to easily use either method (song speed is key to that...). Anyway, establish your basic bag beat, hold it for three to or four measures, then throw little rhythmic fills in by changing techniques or sides of the bag. Notice most "accented fills" on the bag are really two beat (doubles) or three beat (triples) accents. Doubles can be made with Double Punches or Double Elbow Strikes. Triples are done with Triple Elbow Strikes or 3-punch Fist Rolls. Baggist has shown how Four Ways can be used, (I do use them rarely, but not so much in my approach. I do a four punch walk around (FDP ' SSP ' RSP ' '..repeat *accent last punch) occassionally.
Anyway, Establish your basic bag beat first, then throw in some fills. That comes from knowing how the bag sounds (beats) match up to music. Once you know that bag sounds, and have a bit of control to match them to an external beat (from the music) then you can start punch "to the song", working your bag beat as the drummer does, keeping time with occassional fills, rather than just throwing a lot of combinations at the same speed as the music. When you do that, you are punching the bag at the same speed as the song but the combinations used may not really match the phrase of "hook" of the music.
The reason my punch drumming sounds a little cleaner than most is that I don't try to overpower the song with a lot of fancy bag combinations thrown at the same speed as the music. If you do that, sure - the bag beats may be at the same speed as the music, but the combination sounds don't match the phrase or measure of music you are doing them to. the bag overpowers the music. If you want to rip the bag hard and fast, then choose a faster or more rhythmically challenging piece of music.
I explain some of how I do this in "Don't Stop Believing" starting at 1:50. Also see Spirit in the Sky 5:45 and notice how I'm using mostly basic rhythm "straight time" punching. Then at 6:56 - 7:25 I change to syncopated punching style. Notice how different the bag sounds to the music. I have to punch faster to make these beats match and there are a lot more accented bag beats with in the combo's. Sometimes this will overpower the song (too much drummer...) then I go back to Basic Punching and jump to syncopated again at 8:42. This is such a basic song with little beat variation that the bag changes are very noticeable. Notice how the extend basic rhythm punching 9:07 - 9:38 fits very well. (Actually a bigger bag should be used on this song. this was an 8x5, which was a bit too small for this song. A 9x6 or 10x7 would have been a better choice).
The point is, the secret to solid punch drumming is to work with what the music gives you. If you hit the bag TO THE MUSIC, then the music dictates what works. Don't try to force a bunch of fast or fancy bag combinations into a song just because you can do them at the same beat speed as the music. that may show off the bag but doesn't compliment the song. Drummers can get fired for that.
By the way, the terms "Straight Time Punching" and "Syncopated Punching Combinations" are bag punching terminology I use to TEACH how the bag sounds can work and be manipulated to music. They are teaching concepts only. When I Punch to Music, I don't really think about all that. Those terms just help me to explain and demonstrate it to someone else.Speed Bag
Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
*attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
The Quest Continues...
Hoping for another Gathering...
sigpic
The Art of the Bag
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Thanx for all the comments Guy's.
Ok.
1stly, I'd like to start with the bag. It is an Ozzy made bag but it is not a JB, in fact it's not even leather. Baggist; it's what's called dura-hide (which is a synthetic something or rather) and it's an 8x5 SupaTuff, Australia. I do also have the SupaTuff Australia 10x7 which is made out of roo hide and was my very 1st bag and you can also get the 8x5 in hide as well.
That is a new old drum that I've never used before, and once I take it down I;ll probably never use it again. It came with the heavy bag stand I have which also has a speedbag platform. Timbo you havn't seen the last of the beef deck. The fact is, that is the only bag I can effectively use on this flimsy deck with out the weights bouncing. The sun glasses conceal my tourettes.
Thankx for the tips Brian, and you covered that Queen song impeccably. I am still very much a green horn and I don't shy away from that. My timing with getting the fist to the bag to match my ear can get me into trouble and that's something I'm always working on. It may well have been the wrong size bag to use for that track. Having said that, I am BIG into drum & bass or D&B for those that like it, and whilst I am one half 100% pure Australian my roots stem from the tropics of SE Asia so the jungle is very much part of me.
Alan I knew you wouldn't miss anything. But It's what Brian's talking about that I PM'ed you on. Your response is a good insight to what is happening to all us novice punch drummers and I'm happy it's there for all to read. By the way, on the CD I have of this group this is the track that leads into the track that I put that request for, so you have an idea where my difficulties lay.
Yeah the neighbours love me round hear Deano and I knew you'd love the sound of the speed of that 8x5 ball. In fact I'm growing some rocket, pumkin, zucchinies and snow peas in the next door neighbours garden, I'll bring some down when we have our speed bag convention. I hope Alan doesn't mind us photocopying 1 or 2 pages of the SBB for you to have.Last edited by Roc Stone; 10-20-2009, 02:02 AM.sigpic'IRON HORSE, LIVE TO RIDE'
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