Side Double Punching

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  • nowheredesign
    Speed Bag Trainee
    • Jun 2006
    • 17

    Side Double Punching

    First off, hello to everyone. This is my first post..

    Briefly, I was once an amateur boxer in Philly.. Now I'm a washed up 35 year old living out in the sticks.

    I have recently returned to the training techniques of old, easing back into it for the sake of getting back in shape; and, of course, I have walked back up to my speed bag.

    I recaptured the basic rhythms I had once used, but soon, I got bored. Fortunately, I found out that Mr. Kahn's book that I once used was available on DVD. I ordered it right away.

    Most of the techniques were new to me (beside standard stuff like front fist rolling, front double punch, etc.) However, I must say that I learned so much more and I would highly recommend buying the DVD.

    The only thing that I am having trouble with is the Side Double Punch. My fist either completely misses on the rebound or hits the side of the bag too high, which causes the bag to sway out of control.

    Does anyone have any advice on how I can improve my form? I try to do it slower and (as Mr. Kahn said) continue striking with the side fist to "see where it goes." I just can't seem to get it to strike smoothly with either fist.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    (Briefly! lol..)

    Thanks

    Last edited by nowheredesign; 06-09-2006, 02:44 PM.
  • ryzies
    Speed Bag Trainee
    • May 2006
    • 17

    #2
    i'm sure someone will help you out...probably alan himself as he is the god of speedbag...

    Comment

    • nowheredesign
      Speed Bag Trainee
      • Jun 2006
      • 17

      #3
      Eureka!

      I got it!

      I just forced my elbows to stay up..

      Thanks anyway..

      Comment

      • Speedbag
        Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

        • Feb 2006
        • 7109

        #4
        Side Double Punch

        Originally posted by nowheredesign
        I got it!

        I just forced my elbows to stay up..

        Thanks anyway..

        Absolutely right. Keeping the elbows up is one of the "secrets" to learning many of the techniques, including the Side Double Punch (SDP). Moving both fists together in one movement is another. The SDP movement is like a set of windshield wipers. From the ready position, (fists up at the corner of the mouth). Extend one fist out to the side area of the bag. (This will be the second fist to hit the bag.) Then move both fists together in a sideways motion across the body. The fists will simple rotate and change position. Lead fist (by the face) hits the front of the bag, and extends out to the side, The second fist hits the side of the bag (after one rebound) and comes to the face (home position). The rebound angle of the bag after the lead fist connects will easily allow the second fist to hit after one rebound. If you have problems making connectiion with the side (second fist), then try angling the lead fist more in a sideways motion. Simply exchanging the fist positions in the manner will create the SDP ' ' SDP combination (2 rebounds in between).

        (It will actually work if the lead fist hits in the direct Front Circle Punch (FCP) position, but angling it sideways makes it easier.)

        you can practice this by getting in the Side Double Punch position, do a few single Front Circle punches to get the bag going, the continue to do the Front circle punch and let the second (side fist) move with it.

        (hint: the second fist will return to hit the bag from the front after two rebounds. That is also why the SDP ' ' SDP = 2 rebounds inbetween.)

        * Same fist: side-to-front = 2 rebounds.
        Last edited by Speedbag; 09-05-2009, 07:56 PM.
        Speed Bag

        Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
        *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
        The Quest Continues...
        Hoping for another Gathering...


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        The Art of the Bag

        Comment

        • nowheredesign
          Speed Bag Trainee
          • Jun 2006
          • 17

          #5
          Thanks, Speedbag!

          I have been working on it all day. I wouldn't say that I'm "flawless" yet, but I'm getting there.

          I started using an old trick that my trainer way back when used to torment me with (especially when I failed to keep my hands up.) Each time I make a mistake that is caused by a bad habit (lowering my elbows in this case,)
          I do 10 slow pushups.

          I recommend doing something like that because you strengthen your arms while subconsciously teaching yourself good habits.

          It works really well with learning to skip rope, too. However, you want to do your pushups faster with that.

          PS: This is a great forum. I'm so glad I discovered it!

          Comment

          • Kaju Dog
            Member
            • Jul 2009
            • 43

            #6
            Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
            Absolutely right. Keeping the elbows up is one of the "secrets" to learning many of the techniques, including the Side Double Punch (SDP).

            Please understand first off that I mean no dissrespect with this post. I truely admire all that I have ran accross here.

            I am also very aware of the the fact that many of you have boxing and or some form of fighting experience/training.

            My personal challenge is just as quoted above. I have a very difficult time (after 20+ yrs of training to keep my elbows in).

            I shoot out my punches and then rapidly bring the cover hand back with my elbow tight to the body. A hard habit to break and not sure if I want to break the habit.

            As I have been working in a physical therapy clinic for the last couple years of my shore duty, I do realize the strength, toning and shoulder treatment/gains from this practice, which is one of the reasons I have my SB mounted slightly higher than recommended.

            Getting to my question, (I ramble) have any of you found yourself fighting to keep you elbows in during a sparring match or fight? Have the years of bagging this way caused a backfire in the muscle memory of keepng your hands in tight and your elbow in protecting the ribs?

            I do a lot of center line striking from practicing with one of my teachers that is big into Wing Chun and JKD.

            Thoughts and input appreciated.

            Thanks in advance,
            KD

            PS
            I am in no way trying to be negative toward anyone or any style of training here. Your bio's and skills speak for themselves. Just wondering if there is a secret or tip that I am missing here.

            Bag On

            Comment

            • Speedbag
              Author of the Speed Bag Bible, founder of speedbagcentral.com

              • Feb 2006
              • 7109

              #7
              Originally posted by Kaju Dog View Post
              Please understand first off that I mean no dissrespect with this post. I truely admire all that I have ran accross here.

              I am also very aware of the the fact that many of you have boxing and or some form of fighting experience/training.

              My personal challenge is just as quoted above. I have a very difficult time (after 20+ yrs of training to keep my elbows in).

              I shoot out my punches and then rapidly bring the cover hand back with my elbow tight to the body. A hard habit to break and not sure if I want to break the habit.

              As I have been working in a physical therapy clinic for the last couple years of my shore duty, I do realize the strength, toning and shoulder treatment/gains from this practice, which is one of the reasons I have my SB mounted slightly higher than recommended.

              Getting to my question, (I ramble) have any of you found yourself fighting to keep you elbows in during a sparring match or fight? Have the years of bagging this way caused a backfire in the muscle memory of keepng your hands in tight and your elbow in protecting the ribs?

              I do a lot of center line striking from practicing with one of my teachers that is big into Wing Chun and JKD.

              Thoughts and input appreciated.

              Thanks in advance,
              KD

              PS
              I am in no way trying to be negative toward anyone or any style of training here. Your bio's and skills speak for themselves. Just wondering if there is a secret or tip that I am missing here.

              Bag On
              Hey Kaju Dog,

              First of all, asking such a question, (re: form vs functionality in different situations..) is never disrespectful. You raise a good point. "Does it hurt your competitive or self defense fighting to train with a raised elbow, rather than a tucked one".

              I would answer that several ways, For it really depends on what you are specifically training for. If you are mainly into self defense or competitive fighting, and you think the raised "speed bag elbow position" will retard your progress, - then don't use it. I think the raise elbow position is more efficient for speed bag work the way "I" use it, not necessarily the way a boxer or competitor uses it. I had a long discussion on this fact with Kenny Weldon, boxing coach, years ago at a Ringside teaching seminar. He hated my raised elbow position for competitive boxers, saying you should always train like you fight. I agreed that it leaves your sides open, however the speed bag has never punched me back (least ways not in the ribs..) but I also said that most boxers will not compete all their life and if they want to hit the speed bag more efficient, or do more than just a simple boxing workout, I felt like the raised elbows will help make it easier to hit like I do. That said, it is really up to the individual to chose what they need and what they feel comfortable with.

              For the first year or so I saw Zach "Speed Bag Skunk" Ruffo, I did not like his elbow positions, particularly on Side Double Punching, in which he kept them low in a noticeable windshield wiper movement. I believe that is a terrible position for transitioning from fast side double punching to elbow combo's, for the elbow is down out of position and the transitions happen very fast. The raised elbow also allows me to better control my fist placement ON the side area of the bag, because sometimes I want to emphasize the angle of entry to the side, and I can't do that with my elbow down. But the lower elbows works for him, and he compensates magnificently for it, I suspect by pure speed of movement. I've also noticed his arm positions have gotten better over time, (glad to see this rock solid close to parallel upper arm position on side double punching at Tims place.. ) by force of habit I always look for that.

              Now Skunk may also have some insight on the competitive part of your question, because he is a competitor, with a fight in a few days, and it would be interesting to get his view on how his speed bagging effects his actual ring work. I did some martial arts sparring years ago, long after I was speed baggin', and I don't remember my speed bag elbow positions being a factor. I trained for fighting on the heavybag and other apparatus, and left the speed bag for my own speed bag workouts. I never really saw the two as connected.

              What I most remember about sparring was the high foot positions of my opponents and their toes tapping me in the face.
              Speed Bag

              Put a little Rhythm in YOUR workout!
              *attendee: Every SB gathering so far!
              The Quest Continues...
              Hoping for another Gathering...


              sigpic

              The Art of the Bag

              Comment

              • metaldad
                Speed Bag Guru
                • Apr 2007
                • 1514

                #8
                Originally posted by Kaju Dog View Post
                Please understand first off that I mean no dissrespect with this post. I truely admire all that I have ran accross here.

                I am also very aware of the the fact that many of you have boxing and or some form of fighting experience/training.

                My personal challenge is just as quoted above. I have a very difficult time (after 20+ yrs of training to keep my elbows in).

                I shoot out my punches and then rapidly bring the cover hand back with my elbow tight to the body. A hard habit to break and not sure if I want to break the habit.

                As I have been working in a physical therapy clinic for the last couple years of my shore duty, I do realize the strength, toning and shoulder treatment/gains from this practice, which is one of the reasons I have my SB mounted slightly higher than recommended.

                Getting to my question, (I ramble) have any of you found yourself fighting to keep you elbows in during a sparring match or fight? Have the years of bagging this way caused a backfire in the muscle memory of keepng your hands in tight and your elbow in protecting the ribs?

                I do a lot of center line striking from practicing with one of my teachers that is big into Wing Chun and JKD.

                Thoughts and input appreciated.

                Thanks in advance,
                KD

                PS
                I am in no way trying to be negative toward anyone or any style of training here. Your bio's and skills speak for themselves. Just wondering if there is a secret or tip that I am missing here.

                Bag On
                Kajudog, this is completely the opinion of someone who has NEVER fought competetively but is inspired by fighters. Bruce Lee Said it best: "When training for fighting, always visualize your opponent in front of you" " When hitting the bag visulaize your enemy"....Again this is just my non professional input. I hope I wasn't off base with that.
                sigpic

                Comment

                • Kaju Dog
                  Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 43

                  #9
                  Thank you for the feedback Gentlemen

                  I am thick skinned but when entering as a guest in someones home, I do my best to be respectful.

                  I look forward to more feedback and best wishes to SBS on his upcomming fight.

                  I compete about twice a year. Dog Brothers Full Contact Stick Fighting, Shock knives, Empty hand, etc. www.dogbrothers.com

                  I am looking for ways to blend the SB work with relation to the above mentioned fighting variations & having a blast doing it.

                  thanks again everyone,
                  KD

                  Comment

                  • Tim
                    Administrator and Founder of SpeedBagForum.com


                    • Jan 2006
                    • 3428

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Speedbag View Post
                    Now Skunk may also have some insight on the competitive part of your question, because he is a competitor, with a fight in a few days, and it would be interesting to get his view on how his speed bagging effects his actual ring work.
                    I'm going to see the fight, I'll let you guys know if he keeps is elbows in or out

                    My ring aspirations ended years ago, before I got into the speed bag seriously, so it's never been a concern for me. But I can see where it might affect fighting form.

                    Comment

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